Turn Line?

GTSamIAm · #1 08-22-2005, 01:06 PM

I think I should use WA/WB and call down after the flop check/raise. After the flop check/raise, I figure he could have any pair. So I either have a bigger pair, have him dominated, or am behind to an overpair or a set or two pair (only a set seems plausible but not especially likely). Should I have raised the turn for protection after the third spade fell?

I have no real reads on this player; he hasn't played too many hands. Most people have been raising strong hands preflop. Table has been a little tight and passive, and at this point I'm about to leave.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, 6 folds, UTG calls.

Flop: (5.50 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, UTG raises, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.75 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG bets, Hero...

istewart · #2 08-22-2005, 01:08 PM

I tend to call down in this spot (not a good turn), but I would have 3-bet the flop. You're betting this flop with nearly anything so he's check/raising with tons of hands you beat.

GTSamIAm · #3 08-22-2005, 01:11 PM

Huh? They aren't many hands he can have that beat me. He'd have to have an overpair or a set. I'm ruling out two pair. I thought he probably had overcards to tell you the truth.

Nick Royale · #4 08-22-2005, 01:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Huh? They aren't many hands he can have that beat me. He'd have to have an overpair or a set. I'm ruling out two pair. I thought he probably had overcards to tell you the truth.

[/ QUOTE ]
Reread the post.

I agree with istewart. Why aren't you 3-betting the flop?

istewart · #5 08-22-2005, 01:13 PM

Overcards? IMO the type of player to check/raise overcards on this board is the type of player that will raise this type of hand (one that would give him overs on a T-high flop) preflop.

Also, I know there aren't that many hands that beat you. Why didn't you reraise?

GTSamIAm · #6 08-22-2005, 01:15 PM

I thought it was WA/WB, and I was heads up. Raising makes him fold a worse hand, and keep a better hand. But then again, my hand is very vulnerable. Tell me why you're 3-betting instead of calling down.

bozlax · #7 08-22-2005, 01:28 PM

Was the pfr to isolate? If so, what made you want to do that? I'm not raising AT in MP1 at a tight table (or a loose one, for that matter) unless it's sooted or I'm isolating.

I don't see you being WB on this flop, assuming Villan is tight as the table. AA/KK/QQ/JJ he would have raised preflop. 66/44 he'd wait to raise the set on the turn. I think his flop raise is either a semi-bluff with, say, A4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], or overcards, or he's trying to steal the pot with something else. You, OTOH, have a hand that needs to be protected against Villan's most likely holdings, and should be 3-betting.

Since you didn't 3-bet the flop, you now have no idea what he's betting with on the turn. I'd call down, now, and make myself do 100 push-ups for being stupid when he showed me his 2-card spade flush.

Just my opinion.

jrz1972 · #8 08-22-2005, 01:29 PM

This isn't a good hand for WA/WB. You might be WB a set, but you're probably not WA of whatever villain has. On the flop, you're 3-betting for value, but if villain folds, that's fine too.

If a really scary card comes on the turn, like, oh I don't know, the 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] for example, you'll wish you had played more aggressively earlier.

istewart · #9 08-22-2005, 01:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I thought it was WA/WB, and I was heads up. Raising makes him fold a worse hand, and keep a better hand. But then again, my hand is very vulnerable. Tell me why you're 3-betting instead of calling down.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can't be WA/WB here. If he has 6x where x is not an ace he has 5 outs. If he has 87 he has 8 outs. If he has two spades he has 9 outs, etc. Plus, like you said, you're rarely way behind here.

He's not folding many worse hands here either. He will almost always look you up with 88 or Tx or A6.

666shooter · #10 08-22-2005, 01:42 PM

I don't like the pre-flop raise with ATo in MP, maybe in LP depending upon the situation.

If UTG is any good, he may have check-raised you expecting you to bet because of your PFR...I might have 3-bet in this case to get a feel for how good his hand is. I'm probably giving too much credit here to the typical player at these levels but with no reads...

On the turn, given the way the hand has been played at this point, I'd probably call down or fold...leaning more towards folding.