Folding KK to the shortstack

[jeffraider]

Last night I was playing a super satellite on Party. We were down to the final table, top 7 get seats, 8 left. The short stack is sitting to my right. I'm the big chip leader, I've got around 42K, short stack is at 2K in this hand, blinds are 400/800. I started the final table with about 28K or so, and I've been raising with any two cards every second hand 3XBB, and I've gotten the blinds every time except for twice, once I folded to the second-biggest stack's all-in raise, and once I called with 95o when the shortest stack (at that time) raised me .5BB more, and I knocked him out. The table knows what I'm doing, but no one is doing anything about it except for moving over the top only when they get exceptional hands. No one wants to go out in 8th.

Before I explain the hand in question, I'll just explain something. I know that there's no reason to be increasing my chip lead in this situation, as I could just fold every hand and still win the seat, but I decided that since this was only my third serious MTT, I wanted some practice in increasing my stack on the bubble, so please keep in mind that my thinking behind this hand was playing to increase my chip stack and eventually win first place, rather than just wait for the top 7.

I'm in the big blind with 42K. The small blind is the short stack, he has 1600 after paying his 400. Everyone folds around to the SB, who pushes in his remaining 1600. I've got two black kings. After spending a few seconds thinking about it, I fold.

What do you guys think? Decent move in a non-satellite tournament, or just being too wicked, tricksy and false?

[mojorisin24]

Is this a serious post?

[Rick Diesel]

Extremely stupid.

[jeffraider]

Why is it stupid?

[nightlyraver]

You will need to explain your reasoning behind this as I have no idea why you would do a thing like this. Were you actually fearfull of AA? Were you just letting the SS stick around for a few more orbits? If you are trying to get in some good practice, this was not a good move in any sort of bubble play.

[shant]

I don't even play multi-table tournaments regularly but enjoy reading the posts in this forum and am clueless as to why this would be a "tricksy" play.

[jeffraider]

[ QUOTE ]
You will need to explain your reasoning behind this as I have no idea why you would do a thing like this. Were you actually fearfull of AA? Were you just letting the SS stick around for a few more orbits? If you are trying to get in some good practice, this was not a good move in any sort of bubble play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay.

I'm not fearful of anything except for this guy going out. Once he gets broke, my extremely profitable blind-stealing will be reduced or completely ended because people will begin to gamble more. By folding here I give up 2800 chips that I would have had won with my KK, but gain at least 4800 in blind steals in the first orbit alone, and probably a couple more orbits worth thanks to the short stack getting a little bit more life. As it turned out, I ended up stealing nearly 10000 more in blinds before the shortstack got broke.

[kuro]

You're not getting good practice with bubble play in this setting. There is absolutely no incentive for the big/medium stacks to play back at you because they have absolutely nothing to gain. All you are doing is messing around with the little stacks which are looking to double up off of your play. The correct play for you at this point on every hand should be to pretty much post and fold. Let the small stacks battle against each other while the blinds increase and stay out of it. You've already won.

[jeffraider]

[ QUOTE ]
You're not getting good practice with bubble play in this setting. There is absolutely no incentive for the big/medium stacks to play back at you because they have absolutely nothing to gain. All you are doing is messing around with the little stacks which are looking to double up off of your play. The correct play for you at this point on every hand should be to pretty much post and fold. Let the small stacks battle against each other while the blinds increase and stay out of it. You've already won.

[/ QUOTE ]

True enough. So you would say that the blind-stealing in a non-super satellite tournament wouldn't be so effective? Not effective enough to try to keep the favourable conditions, or what?

[citanul]

that's what he's saying, yes.

if say, you had an enormous chip lead, and a short stack who was Far And Away the shortest stack at the table, and a non-even payout structure post bubble, moves like this come in handy. They come up all the time, and are posted about more frequently I think in the SNG forum.

However, trying to get "practice" in this fashion is idiotic. You're trying to practice baseball by playing football, or something like that. In a real tournament, with non-even payouts, the other big stacks Particularly the Bigger Than You stack, will play back at you. Also, it doesn't sound like your stack is so outrageous, nor the blinds so steep that anyone really has to worry about busting by seeing a flop with you. It's not like you were pushing all in every hand, it doesn't sound like that at least. It sounds like they were folding because they knew that eventually the short stack would bust, and they were waiting for their EVEN payouts after that.

So yes, while one could in theory make up many spots where folding KK is correct, this is not even a situation that resembles one.

citanul