#1
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a QQ hand...
MP1 is 21/11/2.0 over about 300 hands
MP2 is 24/13/1.8 over about 100 hands MP1 has been raising lite and ramming on the SB streets w/ marginal holdings the last couple orbits, might be tilting. MP2 seemed reasonable post flop, and aware enough to raise a draw for value on the flop. Where should I have found my fold here? Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx Preflop: Hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP1 calls, MP2 calls. Flop: (13.66 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font> MP1 checks, MP2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, MP1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 caps</font>, Hero calls, MP1 calls. Turn: (12.83 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font> MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, Hero folds, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, MP2 calls. River: (16.83 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, MP2 calls. Final Pot: 18.83 BB I'll put my thoughts on the flop up a little later. thanks, lf |
#2
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Re: a QQ hand...
I think just peeling the turn after MP2's first raise looking to spike a Q or pick up a heart draw getting 19:1 is the best move.
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#3
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Re: a QQ hand...
[ QUOTE ]
I think just peeling the turn after MP2's first raise looking to spike a Q or pick up a heart draw getting 19:1 is the best move. [/ QUOTE ] I agree. |
#4
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Re: a QQ hand...
There's very a small chance you're ahead and a small chance you'll hit a queen.
If you're ahead of both opponents and neither bluff on the river 3% of the time then you're giving up you're share of ~.42-.45 BB When you're behind you'll average less than 2 full outs. 1.9 outs / 46 * 18BB expected pot = .74BB with implied odds. Combined Equity: .74+.42=1.16 So if you think you'll catch a bluff or draw that didn't get there 3/100 times then you can peel profitably. |
#5
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Re: a QQ hand...
As Stoxtrader said in a recent thread by raising "you're encouraging action you don't want and discouraging action you want." If he has a good draw you don't make much in extra EV by raising, but if he has you beat you're giving money away.
If MP1 has a lot of equity he's going to call 2 bets, if he has a small amount of equity then "forcing him out" may not be the most profitable play. Weighing the options I would call the flop and re-evaluate on the turn. |
#6
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My flop thoughts
I understand where you're coming from, however if I just call the flop, whats my turn line? Obviously if its a Q i'm jumping for joy.
I bet the flop because I thought it still likely I was in front. When MP1 just called I figured he had some medium PP, like JJ or TT. The c/r from MP2 looked like heart draw (its important that the K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] is not on the board) or AA. The purpose of my 3 bet was to better define both of their hands to make the turn easier, and in a perfect world give myself a cheaper look at the river. Once MP1 called 2 more that rules out JJ or TT, so either he;s got some wimpy K, AA, a set, or the nut heart draw. When MP2 caps, that seals the deal that one of them certainly has the big draw, and the other has the big hand. I only called the 4th flop bet because I had the Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] in my hand and figured either Q was good enough. I was folding any non Q turn, including a heart. Does that make sense? Am i paying too much for the information? lf |
#7
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Re: a QQ hand...
Good line. One of these jokers has a hand, I'm betting on AK or KK here. Even still, you have to give this up on the turn, else you spew chips.
Tex |
#8
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Re: My flop thoughts
You did a good job developing a plan and sticking with it.
I've been actively trying to tone down my agression in spots where I seem to be building a pot with no purpose, but it seems you had a good purpose for the raise. It would be tougher decision on the turn if MP1 folds. But if I guess that depends on whether he would cap and lead with a draw. |
#9
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Results
MP1 had 88, MP2 had AK of hearts.
Thanks for the replies, comments always welcome lf |
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