KK B&M river laydown?

[Wheezl]

This is a live 4-8 game that is usually pretty loose and mostly passive.

Im late position with KK and there are 4 limpers before me and I raise with KK. 4 limpers and the bigblind see the flop.

Flop is Q 10 5 rainbow. Checked to me and I bet. Called by UTG and seat two to my right.

Turn is another 10 off suit. UTG now bets out on the turn and is flat called by the other player and I call (probably my first mistake?).

River is a 5 and UTG leads out again and is flat called by the other guy. I dont know why but I was simply convinced that at least one of them had a 10 or a 5 at that point and I muck my hand. They both show down Q rag for two pair using the 10's and UTG takes it down with the better kicker.

Was this fold incredibly stupid? At the time I just felt certain that I couldnt beat both of them. I figured UTG for a 10, and maybe a Q or a 5 for the flat caller. I guess I just put unthinking players on thinking plays.

[elysium]

hi wheez
well, i don't understand the sudden reversal in this spot. if you were on his immediate left, it would make more sense. you should call. your call closes the action. next session, instead of folding in tough spots, call. i want you to see what they're coming at you with.

[Wheezl]

Thanks for the info. Other than the river laydown did I misplay the hand? In retrospect If I would have raised the turn I think that they would both have called and checked to me on the river and I would have checked it down there.

[ike]

Raise the turn. When they call and check to you, bet the river. If you get reraised somewhere in here MAYBE you have a fold but as the hand played out laying this down is definetly seeing monsters under the bed.

[Richard Berg]

1) Welcome. 4-8 is small stakes.

2) If they both play the board's two pair with Qx, the pot would have been split...

3) What Ike said.

[steveyz]

[ QUOTE ]


2) If they both play the board's two pair with Qx, the pot would have been split...



[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, the board is QTT55, so someone with Q7 would outkick Q6. There is no split pot unless both had Q4 or less.

[bilbo-san]

This kind of thing is what gives me as a beginner GREAT trouble as well. Neither of the players was willing to bet top pair, or raise another bettor. But suddenly the board pairs and they are willing to bet!? It's just infathomable to me what somebody holding Qx could POSSIBLY be thinking here, and I'd discount that as there holding.

I just have no freaking idea what such players are thinking, and thus find it *impossible* to put them on a hand. My reaction is very much like the original poster in thinking that the bettor must have had a ten which made them call the flop to try and improve, so the ten scares me.

If they had bet the flop (who doesn't bet or c/r top pair!?), you would raise, they would probably check to you on the turn when the board paired, you would bet again, they might call, and we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

I'd very much like to figure out how the better players deal with this kind of ambiguity

[elysium]

hi wheez
calling is better on the turn wheez. your call closes the action, and you really don't know where you stand. in a solid/ good game against the right opponents, raising accomplishes a lot. although in hindsight, you now know that you would have had a value raise on the turn, the fact remains that the only reason you have that opportunity, is because your opponent is over valuing the strength of his hand. call wheez.

[Wheezl]

yeah exactly, kicker played.