Mucked hand?

[betgo]

6/12 holdem, 5 players in limped pot. Complainer has called on button with Q9s. It is checked around, so complainer bets, although he totally missed the flop. He gets called by old guy with 76s and flush draw. Old guy makes pair of 6s on turn. Complainer fired at turn and river with queen high and old guy calls him down.

Complainer shows his hand. Old guy, expecting to be beat, thinks complainer has a pair of jacks and pushs his hand forward face down. Then he realizes he has won and turns them face up.

Complainer says old guy had mucked hand and he had won. Dealer says hand is live. Several people at the table agree with dealer.

Complainer loudly demands floorman. Other people at table continue to argue with him. Three floorman come over. The ruling is that the hand is live.

Complainer complains that he is suffering because of dealer's error. He says that if dealer had a few months of experience, dealer would have swept the hand away before old guy had a chance to turn it face up.

Complainer leaves the table. He had almost busted out amyway. He seems to be a fairly good player, but he lost several hands where he has big hands.

He lost one to me where he had AA versus my T9s and I made a straight on the river. It went 3 bets with 7 players preflop and 2 bets with 4 players on the flop. No one bet the turn, with complainer checking to the flop raiser. Someone said complainer gave me a free card on the turn. I replied that there was no way that I would fold an open ended with that huge pot. Complainer launches into tirade about how I would chase with anything, and how I called all the way with just 65 on the other hand. I didn't correct him, since I figured it didn't hurt if people thought I was another loose fish.

It is OK to try to win a hand on a technicality and it was OK for him to call the floor. However, he really did lose the hand. It seems like the point of the rule is that once the hand is mixed up in the muck there is no way to determine what it is. In this case, the hand was not in the muck, so it was live.

[Bremen]

This is why you don't piss off dealers. If they don't like you they don't do things like sweep up the winning hand.

[The Armchair]

[ QUOTE ]
Complainer shows his hand. Old guy, expecting to be beat, thinks complainer has a pair of jacks and pushs his hand forward face down. Then he realizes he has won and turns them face up.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the complainer is confusing a fold and mucking a loser (winner). If complainer had bet, oldguy had pushed his hand forward to fold and then thought better of it, I could see why he was objecting -- certainly, he could have flipped his hand over thinking (rightfully) he had won, and oldguy would have basically been shooting an angle.

But in this case, there is no possible gain that oldguy could have reaped by doing what he did. So long as oldguy's cards are clearly identifiable, there is no problem with giving him the pot -- and on the other hand, there is a real problem in not doing so.

[KenProspero]

In my fairly limited experience, if the cards are identifiable and turned up, dealer and floor manager will almost always consider it a live hand.

In this case, I don't even think it was that close a call.

[haakee]

The floormen are right and it's not even close. It doesn't matter how slow the dealer is to muck hands.

[HentaiGaijin]

I recognize that avatar!