KK preflop

DireWolf · #1 04-11-2005, 12:52 AM

Don't have the hand history so this is from memory. Stars 11+ rebuy. About 300 left, not very close to the money. blinds 150-300.
I have KK on Button with 8000 chips. Tilting utg shortstack pushes with 2500. Tightish Emp calls with a stack of 10,000. Tight CO pushes for 7000. What is my play.

sloth469 · #2 04-11-2005, 02:17 AM

Fumble with the mouse trying to get all-in as fast as you possibly can.

ZBTHorton · #3 04-11-2005, 02:42 AM

It would take 2-3 more players all in in front of me to get me to fold here, especially at this point in the tournament.

11t · #4 04-11-2005, 03:05 AM

Push

jclin · #5 04-11-2005, 03:14 AM

I don't see EMP calling, so you're HU for (7000-2500)*2 = 9000. Even if EMP calls, you're only against 2 others for big money.

halis123456789 · #6 04-11-2005, 12:54 PM

Let's just imagine that Tightish Emp is going to call the extra 4,500 so then you'd have 3 players in the pot seeing 5 cards.

UTG could have anything including 87s, etc.

Tightish Emp probably does NOT have QQ if you know what I mean, so he probably has something with an ace in it..maybe two (it's unlikely he has AK because you've got two.)

Then tight co pushes if tight emp was just trying to take down UTG with AQo then tight co probably has AA

So obviously, any of these tight players having AA would be a disaster (or even if UTG had it by some miracle.)

But even if it came down:

UTG: 87s (clubs)
Tight 1: AKs (diamonds)
Tight 2: QQ

You may be the favorite, but there are a lot of draws out against you. I'm going to say fold, moreso because someone probably has the aces. It's probably Tight 2 and Tight 1 just got caught trying to take down UTG with a weaker hand.

halis123456789 · #7 04-11-2005, 01:05 PM

By the way, saying ONLY 3 players in is crazy. That is a terrible proposition. 3 Players is a lot to draw against no matter what they have, not even mentioning one might have you dominated. In the scenario I laid out:

UTG: 87s (clubs)
Tight 1: AKs (diamonds)
Tight 2: QQ

Which is probably the best you can hope for, you're still only going to win the hand 36% of the time. You'll lose 63% of the time. With so many people in, it's hard to retain your edge. Sure you will be the big favorite, but you'll still lose 2 out of 3 times.

ZBTHorton · #8 04-11-2005, 01:14 PM

If your a 'big favorite'.

Then this is a call. I appreciate your math, but if your going to use math make sure you know how to apply it.

DireWolf · #9 04-11-2005, 01:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Tightish Emp probably does NOT have QQ if you know what I mean, so he probably has something with an ace in it..maybe two (it's unlikely he has AK because you've got two.)

[/ QUOTE ]

What do you mean by this? I don't really know what you mean. My thoughts were flat calling showed quite a bit of strength. I think he would have tried to iso-reraise with some marginal hands.

I think Co has to have qq or aa. or the very unlikely kk

halis123456789 · #10 04-11-2005, 05:24 PM

i mean to say the tight emp either has AA or AQ. the logic in flat calling with AA is not clear to me, so i wouldn't put him on it necessarily. and QQ just sounds too weak if he really is tight and in EMP. the logic in calling with AQ (even though its not that great) is he's hoping everyone else will fold and he can take down the shortstack. why re-raise with AQ to try and isolate? he's the big stack, everyone fears him anyway, so the only way he gets called is if he's beaten. the CO i think has the AA (if he really is tight) it would make sense.