J6s versus SB

DMBFan23 · #1 10-24-2005, 03:39 PM

what's up y'all. had this hand go down the other day and I think I misplayed it, so I wanted to see what y'all would have done

EDIT: Party 10/20, SB is TAG. I'm leaving soon cause my seat isn't very good.
SB open raises, I call in the BB with Jd6d

Flop is AcJs4d
he bets, I call, intending to call down and check the river if given the opportunity

Turn is 7d
he checks, I think about the free card but sack up and bet because I think I might have the best hand AND I have some outs for those times he does c/r.

then he cr's.

so, what's my plan here? I'm mostly curious about people's plans for various rivers as well, namely a 6 but a J as well. diamond is pretty easy raise/call I think.

holla

Surfbullet · #2 10-24-2005, 03:49 PM

hey DMBfan,

I initially thought the turn bet is good, but if you believe he will bluff at the river when you check through a not-insignificant amout of time (or try to c/r you with a worse hand) then check-call is better.

The pot is small enough that you make quite a bit off of bluffs, especially because the free card doesn't risk much b/c there are only 2 possible overs and you have a tremendous # of outs if behind. He's TAG, but I don't know if he'll bluff enough on the river to be profitable...it'd have to be upwards of 30% i'd say...but if you save yourself from folding the best hand or getting c/r'd and having to put more bets in I think it has much more appeal.

After that little thought i've decided i like checking through the turn and calling a river bet.

Anyway, in the moment i'd probably bet (because that's what I do) and get irked by his c/r. It's such an irrational way to play an ace or better that I think i'd call, and call a river bet - raising if I hit any of my outs. Intellectually I'd fold to a 3bet if I hit my J or 6, but cap a diamond. In the heat of battle i'd call because I don't yet have the discipline to stick to a plan.

Surf

spydog · #3 10-24-2005, 03:51 PM

This is usually a pretty strong line by villian. I'd say he's got a Set/AJ/AK 90% of the time

Therefore, I would just call a 6 or J on the river. I raise/call a diamond.

krimson · #4 10-24-2005, 03:51 PM

He's a TAG so I wouldn't expect him to get out of line on the river...

I'd raise any J or 6 and fold to a 3-bet, raise/cap any diamond not pairing the board and raise/call any diamond pairing the board.

If we miss I think we can just fold? Since we're leaving the table anyways I don't see much reason a meta-game call down.

Spartan1983 · #5 10-24-2005, 03:52 PM

I raise with anything that helps my hand on the river. Having never played 10/20 not sure if I make a call if a blank falls on the river. At 3/6 and 5/10 I probably lay it down with a blank on the river. 2nd pair, weak kicker isn't my idea of a good showdown hand unless I'm sure he is blind stealing with anything and capable of pushing that steal to the limits.

krimson · #6 10-24-2005, 03:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
This is usually a pretty strong line by villian. I'd say he's got a Set/AJ/AK 90% of the time

Therefore, I would just call a 6 or J on the river. I raise/call a diamond.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is it not possible for villian to be doing this with Ax, suspecting that we suspect he is on a pure steal? Or applying pressure on an A high board with a PP suspecting we don't have an ace?

DMBFan23 · #7 10-24-2005, 03:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
It's such an irrational way to play an ace or better

[/ QUOTE ]

I've been thinking about this a lot. are you saying it's probably ok to check behind any pair here?

either way we're looking at probably 6 outs at most unless he has two overcards and a flush draw, (in the event that we have a pair of 6s) but I think I should be betting these turns a decent amount to get value when I'm ahead and he's calling down with something like a PP. but then that opens up the c/r avenue for him. I suppose the board isn't that drawy, so I don't give him much by checking behind here (as opposed to a more drawy board, where he could earn some free cards OOP like this)

DMBFan23 · #8 10-24-2005, 03:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is usually a pretty strong line by villian. I'd say he's got a Set/AJ/AK 90% of the time

Therefore, I would just call a 6 or J on the river. I raise/call a diamond.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is it not possible for villian to be doing this with Ax, suspecting that we suspect he is on a pure steal? Or applying pressure on an A high board with a PP suspecting we don't have an ace?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that could be part of it but when we weigh that too much IMO we play right into his hands, and he makes a lot of $ playing it straightforward...that's one thing I've noticed so far, is that everyone thinks everyone is FOS

spydog · #9 10-24-2005, 04:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is usually a pretty strong line by villian. I'd say he's got a Set/AJ/AK 90% of the time

Therefore, I would just call a 6 or J on the river. I raise/call a diamond.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is it not possible for villian to be doing this with Ax, suspecting that we suspect he is on a pure steal? Or applying pressure on an A high board with a PP suspecting we don't have an ace?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. Actually, my original estimate of 90% is too high. If his raise came from UTG/MP/CO then I think 90% is about right. In a HU blind steal situation I think his holdings are much more broad and it's more likely he's making some sort of play at the pot. It wouldn't surprise me if he's holding complete garbage. How's that for a 180?

krimson · #10 10-24-2005, 04:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Yes. Actually, my original estimate of 90% is too high. If his raise came from UTG/MP/CO then I think 90% is about right. In a HU blind steal situation I think his holdings are much more broad and it's more likely he's making some sort of play at the pot. It wouldn't surprise me if he's holding complete garbage. How's that for a 180?

[/ QUOTE ]

Your point is still pretty valid though. I think we could smooth call a 6, but I'd probably still raise a J, fearing a set or AJ in a HU/Steal situation seems a bit MUBS to me.