General Question about Psychology of Losing Players

[La Brujita]

Perhaps this belongs in psychology and perhaps the answer is obvious to some but as I log more and more time at 15/30 I notice there are many players who lose significant amounts of money in the game.

It struck me how much the money was in absolute terms because losing a couple of hundred or even a couple of thousand a year at 1/2 for example wouldn't break the average wage earner, and could be written off as an entertainment expense, but losing at 15/30 for a year could break many people.

There are a few thoughts I have seen across this site and perhaps this has been discussed before but I am curious as to other people's thoughts. My other question related thereto is how many of these people (VPIP >40 types) realize it is impossible to win playing the way they play.

Here are some possibilities:

1. They are rich and like to test themselves against better players; they can afford to lose the money.

2. They are somewhere along the spectrum of action junkies/addicted to poker.

3. They buy in with $200 just to take a shot once in a while.

4. Because of the huge short term luck factor in limit poker they don't realize they are losers.

5. Related to 4, they don't keep track of money in and out and think they are "about even."

What do you think are the most common factors and am I missing other obvious possibilities?

[cov47]

One obvious thought that comes to mind is that they're people who beat a lower limit online or a B&M game and think they can win at 15/30. Maybe they are able to win enough at the lower limits to survive the beating at 15/30, and maybe not.

I think all your other reasons are valid, but I think the majority of people who lose just don't care that they lose, they're playing because they like to play. It would seem bizarre to me to drop 10 grand on that kind of entertainment, but I'm sure there are quite a few who can afford to do so.

[hockey1]

Add to your list that they think they've just been really unlucky and that once the cards turn they're going to make a killing.

[fnord_too]

Well, for on line players, it is harder to delude yourself into thinking "I am about break even, maybe down a little" since the transactions are pretty formal and harder to blur in your mind. (Really, you can't overvalue your wins if you never get to cash them out!)

I think another thing is that people who get lucky and run up some money through lower limit play or tournaments decide they are better than they are and end up losing a lot at the higher level games (though they don't end up down much since they are losing the fruits of their luck).

As to who realizes they cannot win with horid play, I would say that only the rich ones have a good shot at that. These are people who can play at that level for entertainment without hurting themselves. I suppose the people who get lucky, then get ground down at the higher game may also have the revelation, but I think it is less likely. For these people I think it is more likely to attribute their losses to luck, the game being rigged, superstition, or to the belief that they are normally winning players but were not playing their best in the big game.

[dogmeat]

You forgot the obvious: People like to gamble.

Rarely, if ever, does the average player who simply like to gamble, keep records. They have no idea how much they are losing - and they don't want to know. They will rationalize there losses to justify continued playing.

In B&M casinos, video poker has become the major source of income (slot departments bring in about 80% of the net income for major casinos). Players play for hours, then manage a few wins, or hit a royal flush and you've got em for another month! The nickel machines average $13 per hour and the quarter machines $30 per hour in earnings from a player with continuous time on the machine. You would not believe how many average people (many retired) lose $15 - $20 thousand dollars a year at their local casino.

Dogmeat [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

[Tosh]

6. They don't realise they are losing because they don't know what they're doing or they don't even know they lose.

[deacsoft]

An intresting post. I do think the responses would be better if posted in the Psyc forum.

I do believe that one of the largest reasons for this is that players (especialy new players) tend to believe that they are way better than they are. Short term "luck" may very well be a factor that aids this misconception. Allow me to quote "Dutch" Boyd, who may have said it best when he stated, "Poker is like sex. Everyone thinks they're the best, but most people don't know what they're doing". With poker it seems that it may be easier than many other things to fall in to that frame of mind. They just think they're good and are unwilling to improve. They blame this on any number of things such as: cold cards, bad luck, rigged site, etc.

[pzhon]

Another possibility is that after buying in to a poker site, or to a table, the chips no longer feel like real money. In some sense, a losing player who has no intention of ever cashing out is not losing money, but only changing the time of the next deposit.