Hand against DERB

Robb · #1 09-22-2005, 06:53 PM

MP3 is what I call LA/weird/bad
CO is DERB
Party Poker 30/60 Hold'em (10 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
3 folds, Hero raises, 1 fold, MP3 calls, CO 3-bets, 3 folds, Hero caps, MP3 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (13.50 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets, CO raises, Hero calls, MP3 calls.

Turn: (9.75 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP3 checks, CO bets, Hero calls, MP3 calls.

River: (12.75 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets, CO calls, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 14.75 BB

Justin A · #2 09-22-2005, 06:59 PM

Bet the flop. The hand will play a lot easier after that.

YoureToast · #3 09-22-2005, 08:30 PM

this is a perfect examply of why derb kills so many of us...if you're gonna isolate, isolate (ie bet, 3 bet the flop); if not give up.

Robb · #4 09-22-2005, 08:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
this is a perfect examply of why derb kills so many of us...if you're gonna isolate, isolate (ie bet, 3 bet the flop); if not give up.

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Who is "us"?

How can I isolate with my position exactly? he/she is likely to raise my flop bet with anything he 3 bets me with preflop. What then? 3 bet? And if he calls the 3 bet with his 88 on the flop how do I play a blank turn?

All this hoping he has AQ/KQ and cold-caller has no pair?

YoureToast · #5 09-22-2005, 10:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
this is a perfect examply of why derb kills so many of us...if you're gonna isolate, isolate (ie bet, 3 bet the flop); if not give up.

[/ QUOTE ]

Who is "us"?

How can I isolate with my position exactly? he/she is likely to raise my flop bet with anything he 3 bets me with preflop. What then? 3 bet? And if he calls the 3 bet with his 88 on the flop how do I play a blank turn?

All this hoping he has AQ/KQ and cold-caller has no pair?

[/ QUOTE ]

"Us" is a lot of 2+2ers and other solid players who play poorly against him. I've studied his play and come to the conclusion that the way he makes a lot of his money is by creating an image that causes people like yourself to play loose weak post flop against him, just as you did here. Raise the flop here in an attempt to get MP out of the way. If it doesn't work, you can fold that river with even more confidence, but if it does work, you've greatly increased your chances of winning the hand and its a big pot. One of the biggest problems with your play here is that I think your assuming you have 10 good outs, which I don't think you do. You probably have odds to call down as you did even if you greatly discount your outs, but I think your better off trying to isolate, which will give you the benefit of possibly getting them to check through on the turn.

Robb · #6 09-22-2005, 11:31 PM

No offense Toast but none of this makes sense imo. [ QUOTE ]
"Us" is a lot of 2+2ers and other solid players who play poorly against him. I've studied his play and come to the conclusion that the way he makes a lot of his money is by creating an image that causes people like yourself to play loose weak post flop against him, just as you did here.

[/ QUOTE ]
How am I playing loose postflop? I have the wheel draw and top pair draw.
You think it's weak I think it's appropriate. I don't think you're used to playing against really aggressive players. You punish them with your strong hands and call with your medium hands letting them hang themselves. Here it's magnified by the fact there's another player. I have no pair, why would I 3 bet postflop to get rid of the coldcaller when DERB may have me beat? He's not folding a pair and if he has AQ/KQ I have him crushed. DERB actually gives me some repect so I weighted a pair much more than AQ/KQ and he would probably just call with QJ/KJ.
Given that I didn't think 3 betting DERB on the flop was worth losing the coldcaller when DERB likely has a pair here.

[ QUOTE ]
One of the biggest problems with your play here is that I think your assuming you have 10 good outs, which I don't think you do.

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All of my outs are good here a vast majority of the time.

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You probably have odds to call down as you did even if you greatly discount your outs, but I think your better off trying to isolate, which will give you the benefit of possibly getting them to check through on the turn.

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That looks exactly like I'm trying to lose MP... failed and am checking my face cards. I am making it very easy on my opponents on the turn and difficult for myself on the river.

CardSharpCook · #7 09-22-2005, 11:42 PM

he gave you great advice and analysis. Reread it.

Robb · #8 09-23-2005, 12:06 AM

[ QUOTE ]
he gave you great advice and analysis. Reread it.

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But your response is kind of pointless. I read his response and gave some counterpoints. Tell me where my counterpoints are wrong. I'm open to debate. I've been wrong before.

CardSharpCook · #9 09-23-2005, 12:11 AM

[ QUOTE ]
he gave you great advice and analysis. Reread it.

[/ QUOTE ]

SA125 · #10 09-23-2005, 12:23 AM

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Bet the flop. The hand will play a lot easier after that.

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I agree with Justin. Capping PF and then check/coldcalling 2 on that flop screams AK.

If you're going to cap OOP and plan on calling 2 cold back to you on that flop, shouldn't you lead and represent a made hand instead?

I don't want to come off the wrong way but, other than "I had 2 good cards but missed", what reason is there for that PF/flop line?