Wait for it...

kurosh · #1 09-22-2005, 11:26 PM

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Hero raises, MP calls, CO calls, 1 fold, SB calls, 1 fold.

Flop: (9 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP calls, CO calls, SB raises, Hero calls, MP calls, CO calls.

Turn: (8.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, MP folds, CO folds, SB calls.

River: (12.50 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls.

Final Pot: 14.50 BB

I only have a significant number of hands on the guy that CR'd and he is 40/20/2.

ALL1N · #2 09-23-2005, 01:22 AM

Even though the board is paired, there are tonnes of gutshots and 1 overcard out. Your hand still needs protecting, so 3-bet the flop.

Also, SB may have a flush draw and check the turn.

baronzeus · #3 09-23-2005, 01:26 AM

i 3bet this flop...may be wrong...what turn cards were you planning on not raising?

imitation · #4 09-23-2005, 01:27 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Even though the board is paired, there are tonnes of gutshots and 1 overcard out. Your hand still needs protecting, so 3-bet the flop.

Also, SB may have a flush draw and check the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the idea is that FD, OESD are getting correct odds to call the flop 3-bet, hence wait until the turn to raise. I don't know many times when someone CR the entire field OOP against everyone then checks the next street, and I doubt it would be the play of a FD, more likely trips.

baronzeus · #5 09-23-2005, 01:33 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I think the idea is that FD, OESD are getting correct odds to call the flop 3-bet,

[/ QUOTE ]

aren't they getting the correct odds to call for it on the turn too? (11.5 or 12.5:2?)

ALL1N · #6 09-23-2005, 01:35 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Even though the board is paired, there are tonnes of gutshots and 1 overcard out. Your hand still needs protecting, so 3-bet the flop.

Also, SB may have a flush draw and check the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the idea is that FD, OESD are getting correct odds to call the flop 3-bet, hence wait until the turn to raise. I don't know many times when someone CR the entire field OOP against everyone then checks the next street, and I doubt it would be the play of a FD, more likely trips.

[/ QUOTE ]

Clearly that's the idea. But flush draws and straight draws aren't folding regardless, and we can't make it correct for them to fold whatever we do. This stuff is in the books anyway. The time to wait for the turn is when you can't protect your hand; ie if the raiser is just behind you. Then you go for value.

kurosh · #7 09-23-2005, 01:53 AM

[ QUOTE ]
i 3bet this flop...may be wrong...what turn cards were you planning on not raising?

[/ QUOTE ]None, I think. Maybe an ace.

The not raising until the turn was mostly an attempt to identify SB's hand. Dunno, maybe it was bad.

wackjob · #8 09-23-2005, 02:23 AM

Isn't this pretty standard, or are you wondering if you should have 3-bet the flop?

kurosh · #9 09-23-2005, 02:29 AM

Wondering whether I should 3-bet the flop or call and raise most turns.

TazQ · #10 09-23-2005, 03:00 AM

They'll still be getting the odds on the turn, but the hero's equity will higher if a blank falls. Whether it's bigger enough on the turn to warrant waiting until popping it again is another matter.