cold-callin' AJ

schwza · #1 09-01-2005, 01:00 PM

pre-flop raiser is very agg pre-flop. big stack SB is the same big stack as in my other post. LAG pre-flop, and splashes around a lot post-flop. likes going too far with mediocre made hands. comments on all streets appreciated.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t150 (8 handed) converter

SB (t11913)
BB (t3215)
UTG (t2315)
UTG+1 (t3680)
Hero (t3910)
MP2 (t2555)
CO (t2862)
Button (t2435)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 raises to t450, Hero calls t450, 3 folds, SB calls t375, 1 fold.

Flop: (t1500) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (t1500) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets t700, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls t700.

River: (t2900) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets t2100, Hero calls t2100.

Final Pot: t7100

KramerTM · #2 09-01-2005, 01:10 PM

I might fold this PF, but given your reads, I guess your play is fine.

I'm not sure why you are calling on the turn. What card are you happy with on the river that makes you want to call here. You got yourself in a sticky situation with that river, but you certainly have to call once that comes.

You end up calling off your stack on a very speculative hand. That's my beef.

Please explain your thinking post-flop.

Just a thought:
You need to use your position here. Maybe a min-raise on the turn (if you are going to play it at all) will allow it to get checked down on the river for a cheap showdown.

Rduke55 · #3 09-01-2005, 01:13 PM

What do you think of a turn raise?
Scary board, and if you hit you would have checked the flop. Unless he's got a flush (with what I can't imagine considering the PF raise since you have the Jc - ATc perhaps?) he should probably lay this down.

Edit: Just notcied the sb called the raise, rather than raised PF. Still I still like a turn raise here. It will possibly allow you to check behind on the river and save you some chips when beat.

illegit · #4 09-01-2005, 01:21 PM

Even against a LAG, PF you have a lot of players to act behind you and you have a weak hand. So i fold PF.

Why would the LAG raise PF then check the flop? Looks like he flopped a flush or something. If he had nothing he'd probably bet; if he had a K he'd bet; if he had the Ac he'd bet; If he had a set he'd bet unless he's not too bright. Either he has something like 88 with no club and is scared by the flop, or he flopped the nuts. I would have bet the flop in position and see how he responds. With how you played it I'd fold the turn though.

Rduke55 · #5 09-01-2005, 01:21 PM

OK. I also can make a case for calling the turn bet since if you miss you still have a decent stack. Still, if you hit another club you probably won't get action unless he's got the Ac.
I'm guessing he had the Ac with a worse kicker (8 or 9) and you won.

Rduke55 · #6 09-01-2005, 01:25 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Even against a LAG, PF you have a lot of players to act behind you and you have a weak hand. So i fold PF.

Why would the LAG raise PF then check the flop? Looks like he flopped a flush or something. If he had nothing he'd probably bet; if he had a K he'd bet; if he had the Ac he'd bet; If he had a set he'd bet unless he's not too bright. Either he has something like 88 with no club and is scared by the flop, or he flopped the nuts. I would have bet the flop in position and see how he responds. With how you played it I'd fold the turn though.

[/ QUOTE ]

The PF raiser folded. The sb called PF and bet the turn.
I think folding the turn is a mistake here. You have a draw to the 2nd nuts, a gutshot str8 (that may not be good), and an overcard. The sb could have easily hit the K and waited to see the action.

Of course something angering like 89c may be a possibility for the sb.

illegit · #7 09-01-2005, 02:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]

The PF raiser folded. The sb called PF and bet the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]
Ah.
[ QUOTE ]

I think folding the turn is a mistake here. You have a draw to the 2nd nuts, a gutshot str8 (that may not be good), and an overcard. The sb could have easily hit the K and waited to see the action.

Of course something angering like 89c may be a possibility for the sb.

[/ QUOTE ]

But in general you have about zero clean outs. SB could be betting the Ac, so I'm not sure how happy you are with a club river unless the SB checks when a club falls. SB could have AX, with the X already being paired so an A could be covered (in addition to the SB possible having 2 pair or a set which also make the A not an out). I don't really love any river cards (a T is the best obviously) and I definitely don't like my unimproved A-high so I'm getting out before I hit a dubious card (like an A on the river for example) and then have to call another bet.

Rduke55 · #8 09-01-2005, 02:41 PM

I see you point about clean outs (I guess you only have 1, the Ac) but I still like a turn raise.
I don't like the river call here.

Results?

adanthar · #9 09-01-2005, 02:48 PM

I don't call this PF, although I would on the button with that read; you have no idea what's behind you and it's for over 10% of your stack as it is.

Having gotten to that flop, I'd bet it and be prepared to call a push - UTG+1 has nothing, SB can have anything and you probably have ~12-ish good outs even if behind. Having gotten to the turn, I'm getting 3:1, no implied odds worth mentioning and I hate every river card except one, so I fold. I may also fold this river, because that looks far too much like a value bet and anything making a value bet on that board beats an ace - I don't think you're good 40% of the time.

So basically, I dislike every street.

schwza · #10 09-01-2005, 03:35 PM

thanks for the response.

[ QUOTE ]
I don't call this PF, although I would on the button with that read; you have no idea what's behind you and it's for over 10% of your stack as it is.

[/ QUOTE ]

these are good points, but i'm well ahead of the pfr's range, and i'm going to get play in position against him (as long as no one repops). it's only 8-handed, so there aren't that many behind me.

[ QUOTE ]
Having gotten to that flop, I'd bet it and be prepared to call a push - UTG+1 has nothing, SB can have anything and you probably have ~12-ish good outs even if behind

[/ QUOTE ]

in retrospect, i was too fearful of the A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] on the flop and maybe not enough on the turn. as you said, the pfr has either nothing or the nut flush here - he'd bet the A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] or any made hand. so yeah, i like a bet here.

the turn call i still think is right. there's a decent chance the action will go: i call, river bricks, villain checks, i check, villain has 97o for no hand. he's lag enough that i have a very profitable call (or push) if a club gets there, and same thing for a T.

and, given my read at the time, i think my river call was definitely correct. the lag SB did not raise a lag pfr, so i did not expect SB to have any of QQ+ / AQ+. JT is a reasonable possibility, and so is a made flush or KQ, but i think villain is going to also "value" bet K6, Q9, 88, etc. also, i only have to be good there 2/7 ~28%, not 40.

however, my read was not correct. villain has AQ [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]