Stuggling with aggression level in move to $10/20

bds · #1 02-19-2005, 03:46 PM

Over December and January, I focused my study and my play on my $5/10 6 handed game. On Party, I played 58K hands and had a win rate of 2.82 BB/100 hands. So, I decided to give $10/20 a try. This month, I’ve played 20K hands so far with a win rate of .91 BB/100 hands. I know the sample size is too small to be meaningful, yet I’m delighted to have a win rate that is positive at all. BUT, I am concerned because almost all of my winning sessions were over last weekend, when I was clearly running extraordinarily well. It seems like just about every other time I play, I’m running very badly. This strongly suggests that I have much work to do before I am successful at this level.

I am struggling to decide which areas to focus on first. I’ve decided to playback my hands and post as ones with questions as often as I can. I’ve broken the hands for today down into three posts and appreciate all help.

From reading posts, I came to the conclusion that it was important to play 2nd pair, etc aggressively. I think, though, that I’ve become way too aggressive. I’ve selected some hands that seem to illustrate this, and I would appreciate input on how you play these hands differently.


Hand 1:

 MP is 47/10/.66. SB is 47/24/2.3.
I think I hit raise a couple of times way too fast here. Replaying the hand, I think I should have folded the flop after a bet and a raise. Is this a correct conclusion? 

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP raises, 2 folds, SB calls, Hero 3-bets, MP caps, SB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (12 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, MP bets, SB raises, Hero 3-bets, MP calls, SB calls.

Turn: (10.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP calls, SB raises, Hero calls, MP calls.

River: (16.50 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, Hero calls, MP calls.

Final Pot: 19.50 BB

Hand 2:

BB is 60/9/1.

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
4 folds, Hero raises, BB 3-bets, Hero caps, BB calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, Hero raises, BB calls.

I have nothing but a big Ace and am just skewing chips with nothing but A high. Looking at his preflop raise percentage of 9% (I notice it now – not don’t think I noticed it then), it seems like I should have called his preflop raise and then bet the flop and folded to a raise. Would that be correct or are other approaches better?

Turn: (6 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, BB calls.

River: (8 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 10 BB

PokerMike · #2 02-19-2005, 04:38 PM

You can't call players with 1.0 aggro with AT hi like that, those types often check bottom/middle pair through on the river.

Zele · #3 02-19-2005, 04:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
BUT, I am concerned because almost all of my winning sessions were over last weekend, when I was clearly running extraordinarily well.

[/ QUOTE ]

Irrelevant. A sample is a sample. You don't remove your losing streaks from your overall WR calculation, do you? The only execption to this is if you are more likely to calculate you WR right after you've had a winning session. This will give you an upward bias.

Hand 1: I see no reason not to bet out on the flop.

Hand 2: Preflop cap is good. You still probably have the best hand or a coinflip (even against a 9% pfr), and it keeps the lead. Now use the lead on the flop. You'd like him outta there if possible (no matter what two cards he has), and the best way to do that is by betting out now and betting the turn too.

pfkaok · #4 02-19-2005, 05:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 2: Preflop cap is good. You still probably have the best hand or a coinflip (even against a 9% pfr), and it keeps the lead. Now use the lead on the flop. You'd like him outta there if possible (no matter what two cards he has), and the best way to do that is by betting out now and betting the turn too.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have trouble in these spots too sometimes, as i usually would probably only call the 3bet vs. a 9pfr... after you cap, then lead out on this type of baby flop, do you give up if raised, or just call then fold unimproved on turn.

tongni · #5 02-19-2005, 05:14 PM

I probably fold the flop in hand 1, but I don't check that flop so I'm not put in a tough spot like that. If I bet and it comes raise reraise, I fold the flop. If I bet and I'm just raised, I might 3bet and I might just call the flop, depending on the player. The turn bet is good, but I would fold to the raise. Without a read, even people with that high aggression don't checkraise a bet and call on the turn with a hand you're ahead of, and you still do have to be a little concerned with MP, although not that much.

Hand 2: Uh, why get tricky? Save a small bet and just bet out the flop, the checkraise really doesn't accomplish much. I bet flop, bet turn, check call river.

Zele · #6 02-19-2005, 06:19 PM

I'd peel one off and c/f turn most against this guy (from what we know of him), but I would just call all the way down against a more aggressive fellow. It seems to me blind battles make regular players into LAGs and LAGs into maniacs.

helpmeout · #7 02-19-2005, 11:00 PM

1. Bet out call a raise fold the turn unimproved.

2. What are you capping for? A guy with a PFR of 9% isnt going to 3bet many weak hands.

I pretty much just check/call the flop fold the turn unimproved.

muzungu · #8 02-19-2005, 11:06 PM

A couple thoughts, and questions:

Hand 1:

1. with the SB CC, how much value is there in a 3-bet? Sure, you probably have an equity edge, but there are some problems. If you miss the flop, you are in a tough spot: maybe your A high is good, maybe not, and finding out (or playing it for showdown value) will get expensive. If you hit, you might win a small pot or lose a big one. I might just call from the BB, now I have some deception value if I hit. Plus, if MP caps (as happened) it sucks for you.

2. Gah, just lead the flop. Makes things easier. This has already been discussed, tho.

Hand 2:

Again, i am not sure what your goal is here. Against aggro players, I might just call his 3-bet and check-call all the way down on a ragged board. Maybe I fold an ugly board, and c/c flop, c/r turn on a good flop. Against this guy, sure, cap it preflop, but lead the flop.

Problem with playing all these games is that you have outs and some showdown value and you don't want to (a) trick yourself out of a pot or (b) make the pot so big that you have to call. The same is true for hand 1, now that i think about it. Looks like you got screwed by (b) there.

-muz

bds · #9 02-20-2005, 12:33 PM

[b}Hand 1: [/b]
[ QUOTE ]
I probably fold the flop in hand 1, but I don't check that flop so I'm not put in a tough spot like that. If I bet and it comes raise reraise, I fold the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is excellent advice - bet the flop, fold if raise
reraise.

[ QUOTE ]
with the SB CC, how much value is there in a 3-bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is also good advice. I've been thinking there are times when I should call more in multiple player pots with a hand like this when I am in the blinds, instead of reraising.

Hand 2
[ QUOTE ]
It seems to me blind battles make regular players into LAGs and LAGs into maniacs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Boy, that pretty well sums up what happens to me in these spots.

Thanks for all the input [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

RunDownHouse · #10 02-20-2005, 02:23 PM

Along with everybody that says to just bet the flop in hand one, I'm also going to say that if you do c/r for some reason, you have no business 3betting when it comes back bet and raised. I think that a fold would be in order since you are almost definitely looking for another Q to be best, and even that may be behind to KQ.

Oh, and you can definitely just fold on the turn after the SB's c/r.