Stealing from other forums...

blackaces13 · #1 10-19-2005, 10:28 AM

Here's a hand from another forum which was fortunately responded to by a poster who I have reason to believe is a good player. What do you guys think of the hand, the real issue seemed be a debate over the turn play:

Table is tight-agressive. 25-30 preflop. (I'm at it to clear a re-load bonus)

10 handed 3-6

Hero has K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] in MP.

A bunch of tighties fold... Hero raises , more folds, Button 3-bets , SB and BB fold, Hero caps , Button calls.

Flop: [7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]][7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]][5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]]

 Hero bets , Button calls.

Turn: [A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]]

Hero checks, Button bets , Hero calls.

River: [Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]]

Hero checks, Button bets , Hero calls.

blackaces13 · #2 10-19-2005, 11:21 AM

Negreanu, Eric Lindgren, Jennifer Harmon, and Joe Cassidy all recommend a play here that I'm pretty sure everyone on this board would disagree with.

brettbrettr · #3 10-19-2005, 11:23 AM

Bet folding the turn?

blackaces13 · #4 10-19-2005, 11:53 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Bet folding the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope. My assumption is that most people here recommend betting the turn however.

brettbrettr · #5 10-19-2005, 12:00 PM

Yes, most people here will recommend betting the turn. Are you going to keep up with this mystery? Why don't you just state was was recommended along with the reasons why. The forum is a good place to play a guessing game. But most prefer to discuss hands...

Pharity · #6 10-19-2005, 12:06 PM

Why? This is a WA/WB situation. Will a turn bet fold any better hands? -Nope, not even AQ is going to fold. Might a bet fold a worse hand that otherwise could have paid you off? -Yes it might fold a hand like QQ or JJ, and we dont want that. So yea, check/call the turn should be the right play.

On the river i would bet/fold. Will a worse hand like JJ bet? -No. Might a better hand check? -No. If i bet, will any worse hand raise? -No. Ok, then i should clearly bet.

Yako · #7 10-19-2005, 12:08 PM

What are the odds that OP says he should check/fold?

brettbrettr · #8 10-19-2005, 12:11 PM

You're 100% right about the wa/wb thing. I ignored the pre-flop action...

W. Deranged · #9 10-19-2005, 12:12 PM

In a somewhat similar situation, I think I recently advocated check-call turn, check-fold river. Is this what they're going for? (I think that may well be a great line here).

The idea is that when you check the turn, villain will bet with almost anything decent. Checking prevents you from getting bluff raised, and also helps to get extra bets from hands like JJ or QQ which might simply give up after the A falls. There isn't much of a river value bet here against a good player, since against a pre-flop capper, with an A on board, JJ and QQ are going to have a very hard time calling. So a river bet, unless the player is known to be very good and would follow through with another bet to fold exactly KK, is probably a value bet. Villain can't really expect you to fold once you've called the turn, because you've essentially sent the message that you are not folding (even though you might).

W. Deranged · #10 10-19-2005, 12:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Why? This is a WA/WB situation. Will a turn bet fold any better hands? -Nope, not even AQ is going to fold. Might a bet fold a worse hand that otherwise could have paid you off? -Yes it might fold a hand like QQ or JJ, and we dont want that. So yea, check/call the turn should be the right play.

On the river i would bet/fold. Will a worse hand like JJ bet? -No. Might a better hand check? -No. If i bet, will any worse hand raise? -No. Ok, then i should clearly bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree on the turn check-call. But, about the river: is a decent player calling on this river EVER with JJ or QQ after you cap pre-flop, call the turn, and then donk, considering there is an A on board. Obviously, it depends on the player's ability, but I think these hands are folding very often and much of the time you get called you'll be shown AK or AQ.