How to Count a Chip Stack

[DoubleDown]

In a No-limit game (possibly in Limit as well), its obviously very important to know your opponent's stack size, as this has significant implications on both his/her pre- and post- flop play.

Would like to hear methods players use to count an opponents chip stack at the poker table.

-Do you make it a point to estimate the stack size of each player at the table as soon as you sit down at the table?
-Is it a good idea to outright ask any opponents in a hand being played against you 'how much do you have left?', even if you are not intending to put them all-in with a bet?
-Does estimating a stack size have a certain method to it- or is it just a 'guess-timation' skill that is acquired over time from spending significant time at the tables?

-DD

[detroitplayer]

Just ask if you're wondering. I don't think you're allowed to ask in limit. (?) For an estimation, count the number of chips it takes to level off the top of the rail, and try your 'guestimation' from there if you don't want to flat out ask for a count.

[edtost]

most people keep their chips in stacks of 100, its pretty easy to count them down.

[FeliciaLee]

Thoughtful questions. Glad to hear someone is thinking around here [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

If I am on the list for a NL live game, I try to watch it first, if possible. I count stacks, look for bills behind or under stacks, find out who is deep and watch his play and just get a general idea of the table.

If I am unable to watch, I do these things when I sit down. Normally, the seat available is the guy who would have just been the BB, so by the time I get there, I have to wait a couple of hands to play. At least this gives me time to observe. If I happen to sit down in some odd position, like MP, I wait for the blind, so that I have the same chance to observe.

No, I never ask someone how much they have, either in a hand, or at another time. My whole shtick in live games is to make people as happy and comfortable as possible. I don't usually talk, but when I have to, I try to be pleasant and joke around, especially if an opponent is a newbie, or is getting harassed by someone else at the table.

Estimating stacks becomes second nature after a while, you won't even think of it. You might not even know that you know it, but you will. I had no idea how subconsciously anal I'd gotten until one day when I was playing and I noticed that my total amount was off by $1.00. Yes, ONE dollar. I sat and pondered, and pondered My head was spinning, but I kept playing anyway. I couldn't get it out of my mind. About a half hour later I found it mostly stuffed under the rail, with only a tiny portion sticking out. One frigging dollar, yeah, I'm that anal.

I never, however, let other players at the table know how watchful I am, though (except in tourneys, which is a whole different strategy). I want them to think I'm there for fun, having a blast, going through a few buy-in's on a fun trip to the cardroom.

So when/if I go all-in on a particular hand, or in a session, I don't let them know I know exactly how much they have left, I just put out my load if I have them covered, instead of saying, "Oh, I bet $400," if I know they have $383 left, lol. It is very important for me to keep the recreational players happy, espcially in a NL game, when things are often tense.

Felicia [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[sfer]

[ QUOTE ]

most people keep their chips in stacks of 100, its pretty easy to count them down.

[/ QUOTE ]

You mean stacks of 20 chips, or $100 in a red chip game, right?

[basstardos]

When I watch a player's tendencies, one of the things I notice is how they stack their chips. Usually, people will stack it in either 10 or 20 for easy counting. So, you usually will just see how they stack their chips and guess/count accordingly. If they don't stack their chips, or don't stack them neatly, then you guess. Some people stack in piles of minimum bets, so you can count like that as well.

Also, I find it very important in limit to count stacks, because I want to see who has the money as soon as I sit down. This does affect my strategy, slightly.

rob b

[edtost]

yeah, i'm a fish. games not played in red do exist somewhere, don't they.

[sfer]

Only when bdk3clash buys short.

[edtost]

or when i buy deep.

[DrPublo]

Sorry to hijack but here's a related question about stack sizes and other people's chips.

2-5NL game. Player A moves all in on the river by saying "I'm all in." From my view player A has about 4 and a half stacks of chips arranged in a pyramid (3 stacks behind, two stacks in front) and they appear to all be red. Player B is sitting next to me and announces call. The hand was set over set and player A wins. The dealer asks player A to count it down and, hidden in the 2nd row of chips is about 8 greens, so instead of the all in being for 4 hundred and change its now six hundred and change.

Player B objects that those chips were hidden and that he could not accurately tell how much the bet was. Player A counters that it's player B's responsibility to ask for a chip count if he is unclear.

What's your ruling and why?

The Doc