Drawing to backdoor flushes/straights?

[DBowling]

Im not sure if it matters what forum this is in, sorry if its in the wrong one.
I often see players underbetting the pot. If the bet is so low that it is giving me proper (pot) odds to hit one of my two needed outs, should i make the call? For example:

100 pot. I hold two suited cards, one of my suit hits. $10 bet to see the turn. I would be getting 10 to 1 and hoping to hit a suited card on a 4 to 1 shot? Then it puts me in the position to reevaluate if i will call a bet on the turn.
Im also assuming im more likely to call the flop bet if ive also made a pair or if i have over cards or if im drawing to the nuts. Also, if the pot is smaller (say $50) but i have multiple callers in front of me, would this be a proper call? Sorry for my newbishness.

[tewall]

I've seen this estimated as 1 or 2 outs, so you could add 1 or 2 outs to what you have on the flop and make a decision accordingly. It's worth very little on its own, but if you had a border-line decision it might sway you. It's sounds like you might be looking for an excuse to play hands you should be throwing away [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img].

A good thing about a backdoor flush is it's more likely to get paid off. (this is why I've seen it estimated as 2 outs even though from a strictly probability standpoint it's closer to 1).

[Entity]

In SSHE, Ed assigns 1.5 outs to a backdoor flush (1 is mathematically correct; the .5 is due to the hidden factor and implied odds, as well as the fact that if you don't hit on the turn, you can fold). 1.5 outs are also assigned to non-gap backdoor straights (you hold JT and a Q is on board), 1 out to one-gap, and .5 outs to 2-gappers.

Hope that helps.

This doesn't really belong in PLHE/NLHE, though, just FYI.

Rob

[DBowling]

Yea ive heard it is about 6% chance of hitting runner runner flush draw.
But my question was more geared toward even more speculitive hands. Lets say you have a three flush and a three straight on the flop. Not worth much. But if you can see the turn cheap enough, if you hit one of, say, 16 cards, you end up with either a 4 flush or an OESD. Theres also the chance you end up with both, or maybe a 4flush with a gutshot.
So i was wondering if my thinking was correct. 16 outs to make a draw. So if im getting proper odds to draw to a draw, is it worth it? I also agree with your point about it being more hidden making me more likely to get paid if i hit it

[DBowling]

thanks for your reply. Im not really looking to count outs I guess. Thats why i think it belongs in NL. If it were limit, yes id be counting outs. But since its NL im more trying to make something out of nothing without just saying "i have X outs to make my hand"

[gomberg]

This is also a question of bluffing equity as well. If you think a semi-bluff or pure bluff will work enough times in position on a guy you call the flop on, then you can make this play. Sometimes I'll call just to hit a draw so I can bluff with more stagger on the turn.

[DBowling]

Exactly