Am I supposed to take this crap?

[Tyler Durden]

Party $250K guaranteed.

Blinds 150/300 i have t4200 and JJ in the cutoff.

I open to t800. Button folds. SB moves in, t2800 more to call. I have him covered by t600. He's kinda loose but reasonable.


I realize good players are capable of folding JJ to a reraise, but here, he thinks I'm on a steal and this could be almost any pair right?

So should I call?

Let's say I know it's going to be a coinflip. What then? Should I call getting about 1.5 to 1 on my money? I'm pretty much out if I lose the flip tho.

Comments/thoughts greatly appreciated.

[MLG]

If you know its a coinflip you call. You better know he's really tight to lay it down.

[Zinzan]

Jacks are a challenge to play. I tend to play them weak, unless I'm in "all-in or fold" mode. I got criticized for checking them in the BB last night against two limpers. Valid criticism.

Here, you gotta raise in the CO. Do you fold or call the push? Depends on your read--some BB's consistently bite back to raises, and you'd have to call. Some play very tight in the blinds, and you'd have to fold if he came back over the top. The raise was large, like he didn't want a caller, but given that he was pot-committed to a raise, he was right to push.

If you have no read... then it just depends on the value you put on jacks and your own stack situation. If I had a lot of chips, I'd call. If I didn't have many chips at all, I'd call. If I had your number of chips, I'd consider folding.*

-Z

*But if I was tired and impatient, I'd call. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[Chief911]

Follow the cow.

[MrX]

We have all gone out with this hand many times when we call and find out we are up against a higher pair, however, we forget all the times we call and see the opponent turn up 77-TT and of course the often AK, AQ, and occasional garbage.

IF you know it is a race this is an insta-call given the odds you are getting.

But in reality you do not know it is a race and I think given the range of hands the "typical player" could have here it is an easy call.

However, if you have been playing with this player for a while and this is the first sign of life you have seen from him then it is a fold a disciplined player can make and sleep well at night about.

If you have been raising a lot to steal blinds, then it is an automatic call I feel though b/c it increases the chance you are being played back and it does wonders for your table image when your "steal" is with JJ.

MrX

[slickpoppa]

there is way too high a chance he would make the exact same play with 22-TT for you to fold here. And if he has ak or aq, its still auto call

[M.B.E.]

Chief, are you saying you would have pushed initially rather than raising to 800? Tyler's stack was 4200 (14xBB). If the hand had been at PokerStars, where there are antes, then I agree with the JJ push from the cutoff, regardless of the stack sizes of players left to act.

However, without antes, I don't think a push is necessarily correct. It depends on the stack sizes of the button and blinds. We know that the small blind had 3600 before posting; if the other two had stacks around 2400 each (for example) then I like the push. But if the other two also had stacks around 3600, then without antes I'm inclined to go with Tyler's play of raising to 800. He has to call the allin reraise by a single player. But he also has the chance to get away from the hand if two players behind him commit to the pot. That's minor; the primary reason why a raise to 800 with JJ can be better here than a push is that often the big blind will call the 500, without having proper implied odds to do so.

[Chief911]

I'm saying given the circumstances described, I'd push my chips in there when he reraised.

Nick

[sdplayerb]

it's a very easy call. he thinks you have a wide range of hands, so he can make this move correctly with a lot of hands.
You also don't have much of a stack if you fold.

[kalooki45]

sldnt that be poooooooooooooooooooosh?
[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
thks 4 the laugh!