Really interesting 30-60 hand, 67s on the button.

ggbman · #1 09-09-2005, 05:10 PM

The preflop raiser here is bad, about 45/33. I want comments on all streets, including preflop, which i think is fine?

Party Poker 30/60 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, 1 fold, MP2 raises, 2 folds, Hero calls, 2 folds, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls.

Flop: (9.50 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 checks, MP2 bets, Hero raises, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 folds, MP2 3-bets, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (9.25 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG+1 checks, MP2 bets, Hero raises,

My inital thouhts are this, Flop raise is obviously standard. got one of the those "I am 97% sure he is on clubs when he 3 bet the flop." obviously, i never seem to be right when i am 97% certain of anything, but you get the idea. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Obviously, he could have AA, KK, AQ, etc..., but i think he is the type to smoothcall the flop and c/r the turn with those holdings. Given that read, the turn raise is self explanatory.

Thoughts?

sthief09 · #2 09-09-2005, 05:57 PM

what I hate is that because you play shorthanded full tables, his 45/33 might be misleading. if it's only full games, then ok. but I have seen some 45/33 shorthanded players that I absolutely do not want to play with. but I trust that he actually is bad.

and hate to say it because you say it's really interesting but I don't see another way to play it. decent chance of having the best hand and a million outs if not. any read on UTG+1? he worries me because he probably has a better hand, but maybe he's terrible and doesn't, or maybe he can fold due to all the action.

mike l. · #3 09-09-2005, 05:58 PM

i kept waiting for the part where it gets really interesting.

anyway i think the whole hand is standard, except preflop where fold is the typical play, but calling is an okay option too. i might smooth call the flop and raise the turn regardles of what comes.

ggbman · #4 09-09-2005, 06:11 PM

Lol, sorry about the title, wanted to get people to read the thread. The turn is interesting because sometimes shutting out UTG is correct, and othes we want him in if we hit our draw. A few quick things:

1.) Stheif, your point about stats being misleading is very true, just didn't happen to be the case here, this guy seemed pretty bad to me.
2.) Mike, i am seriously intrigues to why you fold preflop in whats going to being a 4 or 5 way pot with 67s on the button but don't mind limping in the HJ after just 1 limper. I'm not questtioning the other play so much asi want elaoration as to wy this a fold.

NLSoldier · #5 09-09-2005, 06:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
2.) Mike, i am seriously intrigues to why you fold preflop in whats going to being a 4 or 5 way pot with 67s on the button but don't mind limping in the HJ after just 1 limper. I'm not questtioning the other play so much asi want elaoration as to wy this a fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

One reason would be that your position relative to the raiser sucks.

That said, I probably call too.

Nigel · #6 09-09-2005, 06:24 PM

Hey Gabe,

He's the type to bet the river no matter what, so why raise the turn and risk getting 3 bet?

If 3-bet, would you even feel totally comfortable folding your pair (if you miss your draws) on the river against someone this clownish?

If no club comes, are you showing down regardless of the river card?

Nigel

Ok, just noticed that there was one other player still in on turn, so for the sake of my questions above, pretend he isn't there! [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

mike l. · #7 09-09-2005, 06:30 PM

"don't mind limping in the HJ after just 1 limper."

my mind was changed by gabe on this after a long discussion. i think the call here on the button is close to neutral EV since the preflop raiser is bad. i will be interested to see what a good poster says, if a good poster posts on this matter.

NLSoldier · #8 09-09-2005, 06:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
i will be interested to see what a good poster says, if a good poster posts on this matter.

[/ QUOTE ]

i said I would probably call too. your welcome [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

sthief09 · #9 09-09-2005, 07:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
2.) Mike, i am seriously intrigues to why you fold preflop in whats going to being a 4 or 5 way pot with 67s on the button but don't mind limping in the HJ after just 1 limper. I'm not questtioning the other play so much asi want elaoration as to wy this a fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

One reason would be that your position relative to the raiser sucks.

That said, I probably call too.

[/ QUOTE ]

relative position works both ways. on one hand, if he makes a straight or flush, he won't make as much. on the other, he'll win with one pair a lot more often

sthief09 · #10 09-09-2005, 07:33 PM

the reason it's usually bad to cold call suited connectors is because overpairs have them crushed. when someone raises that much,t hat fear is down to nothing. if paying 2 bets with 76s was so bad, then we wouldn't ever raise them with position, but we do. there's not a huge difference between raising 3 limpers on the button with the hand and cold calling a raise after 2 limpers from a guy who raises 2/3 of his hands