Something I totally ripped off of the SS forum

[Greg J]

There was a what I thought to be a really interesting question on SS. I stole the general idea, but it is certainly not the same question exacly, but pretty close.

Okay, here is the situation. You are playing a game with no capping HU. Villian is reasonable, aggressive, and good; slightly looser than TAG preflop, since this is an overly tight table, but not prone to spewage. He has a read on you as a solid player (you think). You are in MP2 with KJs[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].

Villian open raises UTG+2, you 3 bet, all fold to him, and he calls.

Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

He checks, you bet, he checkraises, you 3 bet, he calls.

Turn: 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

He checkraised you again, you 3 bet, he four bets. You both have 25 or so BBs in front of you.

EDIT: assume the max rake has already been taken out.

This depends a LITTLE on the rake structure imo. If the rake already is capped no point in slowing down. If the rake is 10% there is no point in putting in more than 7 bets against a sensible opponent.

edit: especially since you arent holding KJd [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[sean c]

I get a second chance not to screw this up. I was one of the voters in the first thread as Entity pointed out wasn't very good at math. What is really interesting is I had this exact situation come up the night of the first poll in a live game in a hand against my dad.

[Aaron W.]

A non-spewing sLAG open-raises preflop and just calls a 3-bet. Then he check-raises the flop and turn, even though you're coming at him all the time. There are only a few reasonable hands at this point: KJ :diamonds: and TT, with an outside chance of AQ. TAG may have gotten tricky with AA or QQ, but I don't know if he would check-raise the flop and turn with those hands (donkbetting the 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] is much better). I'm really leaning towards KJ[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], though. But I'll get to that in a bit.

By the time you 3-bet his turn check-raise, he knows you mean business (since he probably reads you as solid). What possible hands does he put you on? Your preflop 3-betting range is probably about AA-88, AK-AJs, KQ-KJs. Being a good player, he must see you have AT LEAST two pair, so AQ, TT, QQ, AA, and KJs are really all that's left for you to have. I don't think TT is as likely because most of the hands that you can have after you 3-bet the turn check-raise are better than a set of tens.

I would want to wait until I see the river not paired and not diamond-ed before I think about pushing for all I've got. I voted to give him one more raise (5-bet).

Edit: PS - The last time there was a no cap question, I underestimated how far players go without a cap. I wonder if I'm doing that again...

[bozlax]

There's exactly 2 cards that you're less than 50% equity to: K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. If this isn't a place to go to the mat, I've never seen one.

[Guruman]

there's a reason they call it the "nuts".

you've got the best hand right now, and the only way you're losing is if he's got a set and spikes a boat on the river. We're 65 to 35 vs a set, tied with a straight, and destroying everything else. get the money in with the best of it and go nuts. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Hmm...Where is the smooth call and continue betting on a safe river?

[Greg J]

I thought of adding that option, but did not think anyone would even consider that. I am not a fan of that line at all though.

[ QUOTE ]
There's exactly 2 cards that you're less than 50% equity to: K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. If this isn't a place to go to the mat, I've never seen one.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Redd]

[ QUOTE ]
There's exactly 2 cards that you're less than 50% equity to: K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. If this isn't a place to go to the mat, I've never seen one.

[/ QUOTE ]

But a good chunk of Villain's hand range has exactly 50% equity. And every additional bet that goes in the pot makes it look more likely that Villain is freerolling you with the nuts. Then the question becomes: at how many bets does a set/other hand become so unlikely that you're either splitting or being freerolled often enough for -EV raising? FWIW, I voted for 5 bets because Villain can only have TT or KJ at this point and I doubt he'd 6-bet bottom set into your pf 3-bet on this board.

BTW: where's the 'fold preflop' option? Because I'd fold KJs here.