Brilliant or Foolhardy?

[andyfox]

Both 40-80. I observed a 2+2er play the following two hands

1) Two limpers. 2+2er overlimps on the button with7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].

Flop comes A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. Checked to 2+2er who bets. Small blind, who hasn't played many hands, but seems to have been studying the game and the players, check-raises quickly. Everyone folds to 2+2er who calls.

Turn is 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Opponent bets, 2+2er calls.

River is 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Opponent bets, 2+2er raises.

2) All fold to 2+2er in the hijack and he raises with Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Unknown cut-off and button both cold-call, small blind folds, and weak-tight big blind calls.

Flop comes K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. Big blind checks, 2+2er bets. Cut-off and button both fold, big blind calls.

Turn is a blank, completing the rainbow. Big blind checks, 2+2er bets, big blind calls.

River is A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Big blind checks, 2+2er bets.

What do we think?

[mike l.]

that 53% said both foolhardy is proof that this forum now officially completely sucks.

hand 1 is very well played. hand 2 might be spew, but it's close. betting the river might be correct, but betting the turn is very questionable.

neither hand is bonafide foolhardy though.

[TStoneMBD]

investing 6.5 small bets to win 12 on an unbluffable board is good poker strategy? twoplustwoer did not raise preflop and therefore clearly does not have a strong ace.

hand 1 is not well played in almost every imagineable situation.

hand 2 looks reasonable, but i agree that betting the turn is questionable. reads play a large role here and therefore this play might have been expert.

[mike l.]

look im on a personal mission to get all two plus twoers to play out of control. it'll be good for the games. dont tell anyone.

your avatar is the best ive seen by far.

[lil feller]

Hand 1 is too player depandent to assess. Villians flop c/r certainly seems like a hand the needs protecting, and is almost never a 9. Will villian fold a hand that he'll value bet the river with on an unthreating river card? Doubtful. Make the river a heart, I like it. Make the bluff raise on the turn (which looks more like a slowplayed 9 stop & go to the casual observer) I like it. Here the only hand villian is folding is a busted heart draw, and if thats what he has he played it horribly on the flop.

I like hand 2, until the turn. If the guy is that weak tight, dont' we think he's probably showdown committed when he calls the flop? Whats he think of Hero? Regardless, the river bet would have carried much more weight had there not been a turn bet.

lf

[snakehead]

1. what ever happened to just giving up when you miss the flop? or at least after your bluff gets checkraised? this play might work in no limit, but I thing it's going way too far in a limit game. sounds like tilt or some sort of ego tripping.

2. what did he think the bb called with on the flop and turn? a draw? only a moron would fold to the river bet if he had anything at all.

I don't like either play.

[snakehead]

both hands are fps, which over time, is -ev.

[Ray Zee]

if you know where you are at those plays are fine. if your game is off those plays will break you.

if you do them for the entertainment value thats another thing.

most players that make these plays too often dont get to be well known. but a few do.

[surfdoc]

Were these hands played by you mike?

[DcifrThs]

well i voted for the closest thing to what i think. i voted # 3. hand 1 brillaint hand 2 foolhearty.

the c'r in hand 1 clearly gives away the non 9 hand of villian. looks very clearly like a weak A or pair. calling and raising river is definately the play after betting and getting c'red. it will definately work well more than necessary. but i wouldn't say hand 1 is "brillaint."

the 2nd hand i dont like but i wouldnt say its "foolhearty"..

the ace is about a good a card as any to bet on the river.

so hand 1 i vote is good. hand too not so good but not horrible.

-Barron