When to stop betting?

sakki · #1 04-13-2005, 01:31 AM

I'm a newbie and have played some 5k hands on Party 0.5/1 and 1/2 and I feel like I have some major leaks to fill in my play.

Here's my biggest problem: I don't know when to stop betting after I've bet/raised pre-flop and the flop misses me. Most often I just keep betting and call/fold if bet/re-raised, but I really need to learn what to consider when making this decision.

An example:

Villain has VPIP ~30 (from 10 hands that I'd been on the table)

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero calls, 3 folds, Button #A500AF(Villain)/ calls, 1 fold, BB checks.

Flop: (3.50 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, Villain calls, BB folds.

Turn: (2.75 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Villain calls.

River: (4.75 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets?

deepsquat · #2 04-13-2005, 01:35 AM

id check/fold the river here. Turn bet is ok, as he may get scared by the King.

ArturiusX · #3 04-13-2005, 01:38 AM

I don't like the turn bet at all. Check-fold.

Shillx · #4 04-13-2005, 01:41 AM

Welcome to the boards.

When you are betting the river in a situation like this, you need to determine:

A) What better hands will fold.
B) What worse hands will call.

So in the hand you posted, both (A) and (B) are fairly low as your hand doesn't figure to be good if called, and it would be rare to see him fold anything better. He isn't going to fold a pair of queens or kings so your best hope is that he folds a hand like 66. It is also tough to see him calling with many worse hands here unless you have been playing a little on the crazy side. So he isn't going to call you with A-high very often and he might call with a pair of twos if he is capable of limping with 2-x.

So your best chance here is usually to check the river and see what he does. If he bets, you have to decide how often he is bluffing and then either call or fold. It is hard to say what to do without a read on the villian, but when he calls you all the way on a drawless board you should go more toward folding with all other factors being equal.

Brad

no1super2001 · #5 04-13-2005, 01:46 AM

Preflop is okay.

I have tried to work this leak out of my game as well. Aggression for aggresion's sake is not profitable. In my case, I found that continually betting with poor or drawing hands, particularly HU, leave me with no sense of my opponents hand strength.

In this case you are betting with a basement middle pair and are paying this guy to be in the hand with you.

Learn to take the free card and let your reads and odds dictate your play.

Here's to the brotherhood of leakers. May our time here be the egg whites in our radiators.

toby · #6 04-13-2005, 02:01 AM

Fold preflop, you have a drawing hand in bad position. You want a lot of players in with this hand, ideally so you can chase a flush. If you hit top pair, you have a terrible kicker, and as you see if you pair your kicker, that isn't very indimidating. Your limp is marginally justified if this table usually has a lot of limpers after you.

Afterwards, it's tough to "take a free card" if you aren't last to act.

Given the line you've taken though, bet the flop and turn but check and usually fold the river.

sakki · #7 04-13-2005, 02:16 AM

[ QUOTE ]

Welcome to the boards.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you Brad.

[ QUOTE ]

When you are betting the river in a situation like this, you need to determine:

A) What better hands will fold.
B) What worse hands will call.

[/ QUOTE ]

This sounds like a very good advice. To be honest, I usually just bet these hands without giving much thought to what the villain might have because it's so often that he folds on turn/river.

Thanks for the advice.

sakki · #8 04-13-2005, 02:23 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Fold preflop, you have a drawing hand in bad position.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've played Axs in all but very tight tables from all the positions. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

[ QUOTE ]

Given the line you've taken though, bet the flop and turn but check and usually fold the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

I understand this now, makes really no sense to bet this river.

FourNickel · #9 04-13-2005, 02:32 AM

fold that pre flop and you wont get stuck in these situations with a low pair out of position.

Fredrik · #10 04-13-2005, 04:52 AM

(n00b posting without reading replies)

I'd check the turn after the flop bet. You didn't manage to drive him off with a bet on the flop, so he has something he likes.

If it was bet to me I'd fold. I don't think you have the pot odds to make that call. River I'd check again with the same plan. I can't see any card other than A or 4 that would have me betting on the River.