My undoing in the rebuy- shouldn't my opponent fold??

elcheapo · #1 11-06-2005, 04:17 AM

PokerStars Game #2985865327: Tournament #14414140, Hold'em No Limit - Level XVII (4000/8000) - 2005/11/06 - 02:55:22 (ET)
Table '14414140 132' Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: Marvo21 (10950 in chips)
Seat 2: BigPlay88 (187279 in chips)
Seat 3: C.M. Burns (428191 in chips)
Seat 5: jocke76 (91272 in chips)
Seat 6: violinBU (357180 in chips)
Seat 7: onogod (111036 in chips)
Seat 8: elcheapo23 (176704 in chips)
Seat 9: JohnsSignCo (155964 in chips)
Marvo21: posts the ante 400
BigPlay88: posts the ante 400
C.M. Burns: posts the ante 400
jocke76: posts the ante 400
violinBU: posts the ante 400
onogod: posts the ante 400
elcheapo23: posts the ante 400
JohnsSignCo: posts the ante 400
onogod: posts small blind 4000
elcheapo23: posts big blind 8000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to elcheapo23 [Ts 9s]
JohnsSignCo: raises 12000 to 20000
Marvo21: folds
BigPlay88: folds
C.M. Burns: folds
jocke76: folds
violinBU: folds
onogod: folds
elcheapo23: calls 12000
*** FLOP *** [2h 3s 2s]
elcheapo23: checks
JohnsSignCo: bets 50000
elcheapo23: raises 106304 to 156304 and is all-in
JohnsSignCo: calls 85564 and is all-in
*** TURN *** [2h 3s 2s] [5d]
*** RIVER *** [2h 3s 2s 5d] [4d]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
elcheapo23: shows [Ts 9s] (a pair of Deuces)
JohnsSignCo: shows [Jd As] (a straight, Ace to Five)
JohnsSignCo collected 318328 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 318328 | Rake 0
Board [2h 3s 2s 5d 4d]
Seat 1: Marvo21 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: BigPlay88 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: C.M. Burns folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: jocke76 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: violinBU (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: onogod (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 8: elcheapo23 (big blind) showed [Ts 9s] and lost with a pair of Deuces
Seat 9: JohnsSignCo showed [Jd As] and won (318328) with a straight, Ace to Five

elcheapo · #2 11-06-2005, 04:35 AM

Is this standard or should I fold preflop. Is his call justified (it was an instacall). I could have trips, AQ or any pocket pair and even if I have a draw he's 50/50 with it. Should I push the flop 130,000 into a 50,000 chip pot??. Is my play bad or was it just a lucky fish call that got rewarded.

elcheapo · #3 11-06-2005, 04:40 AM

PokerStars Game #2986049838: Tournament #14414140, Hold'em No Limit - Level XX (10000/20000) - 2005/11/06 - 03:34:19 (ET)
Table '14414140 132' Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: JimmyJones (376923 in chips)
Seat 2: northerngent (178937 in chips)
Seat 3: C.M. Burns (176191 in chips)
Seat 4: Sarkron (402080 in chips)
Seat 5: jdc_1784 (392524 in chips)
Seat 6: violinBU (669514 in chips)
Seat 7: carrot (626189 in chips)
Seat 8: howzitekse (356572 in chips)
Seat 9: JohnsSignCo (933834 in chips)
JimmyJones: posts the ante 1000
northerngent: posts the ante 1000
C.M. Burns: posts the ante 1000
Sarkron: posts the ante 1000
jdc_1784: posts the ante 1000
violinBU: posts the ante 1000
carrot: posts the ante 1000
howzitekse: posts the ante 1000
JohnsSignCo: posts the ante 1000
JohnsSignCo: posts small blind 10000
JimmyJones: posts big blind 20000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
northerngent: folds
C.M. Burns: folds
Sarkron: folds
jdc_1784: folds
violinBU: raises 80000 to 100000
carrot: folds
howzitekse: folds
JohnsSignCo: calls 90000
JimmyJones: folds
*** FLOP *** [As 4c Qc]
JohnsSignCo: checks
violinBU: bets 150000
JohnsSignCo: calls 150000
*** TURN *** [As 4c Qc] [6d]
JohnsSignCo: checks
violinBU: checks
*** RIVER *** [As 4c Qc 6d] [8s]
JohnsSignCo: checks
violinBU: bets 150000
northerngent said, "you talking to me?"
JohnsSignCo: calls 150000
*** SHOW DOWN ***
violinBU: shows [7c Ts] (high card Ace)
JohnsSignCo: shows [Ks Js] (high card Ace - King kicker)
JohnsSignCo collected 829000 from pot
violinBU said, "WOW"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 829000 | Rake 0
Board [As 4c Qc 6d 8s]
Seat 1: JimmyJones (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: northerngent folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: C.M. Burns folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: Sarkron folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: jdc_1784 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: violinBU showed [7c Ts] and lost with high card Ace
Seat 7: carrot folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: howzitekse (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: JohnsSignCo (small blind) showed [Ks Js] and won (829000) with high card Ace

aaronbeen · #4 11-06-2005, 04:49 AM

I love calling pushes or checkraises on flops like that with ace high. It's always a bluff. I'm probably not the only one- so don't make plays like that.

elcheapo · #5 11-06-2005, 04:52 AM

I was the favorite on the flop so it wasn't much of a bluff. I would really like to here from mtt players with track records on whether this call is routine (for all their chips).

yvesaint · #6 11-06-2005, 05:10 AM

that guy is just a huge donk

i mean, check out this hand

PokerStars Game #2986182253: Tournament #14414140, Hold'em No Limit - Level XXII (20000/40000) - 2005/11/06 - 04:09:11 (ET)
Table '14414140 57' Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: Johnster (841471 in chips)
Seat 2: 9000 Outs (340808 in chips)
Seat 3: JohnsSignCo (1612692 in chips)
Seat 7: Red5150 (811660 in chips)
Seat 9: gordo91 (2457369 in chips)
Johnster: posts the ante 2000
9000 Outs: posts the ante 2000
JohnsSignCo: posts the ante 2000
Red5150: posts the ante 2000
gordo91: posts the ante 2000
gordo91: posts small blind 20000
Johnster: posts big blind 40000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
9000 Outs: folds
JohnsSignCo: raises 60000 to 100000
Red5150: folds
gordo91: folds
Johnster: calls 60000
*** FLOP *** [6d Qc 8s]
Johnster: checks
JohnsSignCo: bets 200000
Johnster: raises 539471 to 739471 and is all-in
JohnsSignCo: calls 539471
*** TURN *** [6d Qc 8s] [Qs]
*** RIVER *** [6d Qc 8s Qs] [2s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Johnster: shows [Qh Kc] (three of a kind, Queens)
JohnsSignCo: shows [8d Ah] (two pair, Queens and Eights)
Johnster collected 1708942 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 1708942 | Rake 0
Board [6d Qc 8s Qs 2s]
Seat 1: Johnster (big blind) showed [Qh Kc] and won (1708942) with three of a kind, Queens
Seat 2: 9000 Outs folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: JohnsSignCo showed [8d Ah] and lost with two pair, Queens and Eights
Seat 7: Red5150 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: gordo91 (small blind) folded before Flop

elcheapo · #7 11-06-2005, 05:14 AM

thank you- but how would you play AJ or 109s in that spot

betgo · #8 11-06-2005, 10:01 AM

I think you played the hand fine. With 3-1 pot odds, you have to atleast call with the suited connector. If villain is a loose raiser and will make a laydown, you could consider reraising allin preflop or a small reraise and push on the flop to represent a big pair. However, since the raise is from early position, a flat call is probably best.

I think your flop play was standard. You were actually behind 47-53 on the flop (because villain has a backdoor draw to a higher flush) and you are behind most hands villain has. However, you have pot odds and folding equity. It is possible to lead out, so it looks less like a flush draw. If you lead out with a large bet or push, you probably have more folding equity. I think it would be better to just push on the flop, since you would have more folding equity. It is unlikely anyone would fold to the checkraise.

You have to get your money in with this flop, even though you are about even versus high cards or an underpair and about a 7-3 dog against an overpair. Anything else would be weak/tight.

You got your money in ahead with pot odds. Sometimes you have to gamble. I like calling or reraising with a suited connector, because it sets up gambles that can double me up and help win the tournament.

Villain has to call the checkraise. There is too much invested. It is likely you are on a draw. Even if you have a pp, he is only down 3-1. It is unlikely you have trips.

In answer to your question, it would be terrible for villain to fold to the checkraise. You both played this hand fine, and you wound up with an even gamble.

elcheapo · #9 11-06-2005, 02:06 PM

Interesting, So preflop I take the lead with a reraise to 60,000 (I'd have to call a 3 bet) and push any flop? Also if I lead the flop for 40,000 (after my flop call). He probably doesn't lay down to the allin on the turn if he called the flop. What about a check minraise, basically the same as what I did but would look less like a draw.

betgo · #10 11-06-2005, 03:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Interesting, So preflop I take the lead with a reraise to 60,000 (I'd have to call a 3 bet) and push any flop? Also if I lead the flop for 40,000 (after my flop call). He probably doesn't lay down to the allin on the turn if he called the flop. What about a check minraise, basically the same as what I did but would look less like a draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you want to get the money in. I don't like a chekckminiraise. As I said, I think your best option is to just push.

It is hard to get the raiser to fold an ace or pp on this board. You would like him to fold but a coin flip with pot odds is OK too.

Sometimes you have to gamble and sometimes you lose the gamble.