Failed Flop Check-Raise... Now What?

W. Deranged · #1 08-19-2005, 01:42 AM

Third post today... I'm getting out of hand...

This was a strange situation where I figured betting out on the flop would do nothing and then the worst possible course of events transpired on the flop...

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. MP1 posts a blind of $3.
2 folds, MP1 (poster) checks, 2 folds, CO calls, Button calls, 1 fold, Hero checks.

Flop: (4.33 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets, CO calls, Button calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.16 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)

weevil · #2 08-19-2005, 01:46 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Third post today... I'm getting out of hand...

This was a strange situation where I figured betting out on the flop would do nothing and then the worst possible course of events transpired on the flop...

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. MP1 posts a blind of $3.
2 folds, MP1 (poster) checks, 2 folds, CO calls, Button calls, 1 fold, Hero checks.

Flop: (4.33 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets, CO calls, Button calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.16 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)

[/ QUOTE ]

Yuck. I play the flop the same I think, and check the turn. I think the only time I continue on the turn is if MP1 checks and the button fires, unless I have a read on him telling me otherwise.

Nick C · #3 08-19-2005, 02:02 AM

I'm tired right now (so I think maybe I'll stop posting and log some hands [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]; I don't do both at once).

But I would have bet the flop. I'm not sure why you didn't.

Edit: I do agree that a checkraise would be better, if you get to make it, and maybe I'm being results-oriented. But it's kind of hard to know where the bet will come from (though I'll admit the Button is the most likely place).

Actually, in the small pot that exists prior to the flop action, I'm not sure a checkraise of a Button bet is even all that useful. I think I'd just lead for value and protection.

However, after I did check and there was a bet and two calls, I wouldn't like my hand so much anymore.

And then the turn card wouldn't cheer me up any.

W. Deranged · #4 08-19-2005, 02:07 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm tired right now (so I think maybe I'll stop posting and log some hands [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]; I don't do both at once).

But I would have bet the flop. I'm not sure why you didn't.

[/ QUOTE ]

The short answer is that my hand is so vulnerable I'm willing to take some calculated risks to get a check-raise in and face at least one player with two cold.

I hate four-handed flops, because I'm much more comfortable trying for a check-raise in a field five way or bigger and I'm almost always just leading out in a three-way unraised pot here.

Nick C · #5 08-19-2005, 02:13 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm tired right now (so I think maybe I'll stop posting and log some hands [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]; I don't do both at once).

But I would have bet the flop. I'm not sure why you didn't.

[/ QUOTE ]

The short answer is that my hand is so vulnerable I'm willing to take some calculated risks to get a check-raise in and face at least one player with two cold.

I hate four-handed flops, because I'm much more comfortable trying for a check-raise in a field five way or bigger and I'm almost always just leading out in a three-way unraised pot here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your hand is vulnerable, but the pot is tiny too. I think I'd just bet for value.

Anyway, I edited while you were responding to my response.

W. Deranged · #6 08-19-2005, 02:16 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm tired right now (so I think maybe I'll stop posting and log some hands [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]; I don't do both at once).

But I would have bet the flop. I'm not sure why you didn't.

[/ QUOTE ]

The short answer is that my hand is so vulnerable I'm willing to take some calculated risks to get a check-raise in and face at least one player with two cold.

I hate four-handed flops, because I'm much more comfortable trying for a check-raise in a field five way or bigger and I'm almost always just leading out in a three-way unraised pot here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your hand is vulnerable, but the pot is tiny too. I think I'd just bet for value.

Anyway, I edited while you were responding to my response.

[/ QUOTE ]

Pot size is key. I think that the small pot size plus the inability to identify the location of a bet throws this to a flop bet.

Jake (The Snake) · #7 08-19-2005, 02:20 AM

The pot is small enough that you can protect your hand by just betting out. I would hate to let this drawish board check through when there is such a good chance we have the best hand. I could be wrong, but I really don't think this is a wait-and-see situation.