How ugly is this river call?

Lmn55d · #1 10-18-2005, 06:56 PM

Unknown villain. On a scale from 1 to 10, how ugly is this river call. 1 being Rhea Pearlman (girl from cheers), 10 being Jessica Simpson.

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 2 folds, Hero raises, 1 fold, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, UTG bets, Hero raises, BB folds, UTG 3-bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (6.25 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG bets, Hero raises, UTG 3-bets, Hero calls.

River: (12.25 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 14.25 BB

cartman · #2 10-18-2005, 07:06 PM

I would give it about a 2.5, but I'm sure it must not be that bad or you wouldn't have done it. I have a couple of questions:

Is the turn raise standard procedure and if so, why? I usually just call down here against a non-maniac.

Am I crazy to consider folding when he 3-bets the turn? I usually just call his turn 3-bet and the river bet, but I feel sick about it.

What do you think of your river call?

Thanks,
Cartman

Lmn55d · #3 10-18-2005, 07:09 PM

No, calling down after the flop 3bet is ok. Against some players thats how I would play it. This was a pretty solid turn card I thought and an unknown could easily have been pushing top pair or pair plus draw or just nut flush draw. People pound these hands all the time because a lot of people raise the flop with overs or flush draw. So I thought I was in good shape.

My feeling about the river bet is if I don't fold to the turn 3bet I should fold the river. I'm not crazy about folding to the turn 3bet because I've seen a lot of players (guys with TAG stats included), 3 bet pair + draw there. I could be wrong. , but I wouldn't do it against an unknown.

Lmn55d · #4 10-18-2005, 07:11 PM

oh, and I'm not even sure if I saw this when i was playing, but I have a gutshot outs and some set outs a lot of the time.

cartman · #5 10-18-2005, 07:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
My feeling about the river bet is if I don't fold to the turn 3bet I should fold the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Only because a diamond hit the river, right (otherwise you would call)?

Lmn55d · #6 10-18-2005, 07:18 PM

right, I'm justifying my aggressive play and turn call with the fact that a solid portion of the hands I beat are those that are overplaying pair + draw or just draw. When I don't improve on the river and the draw hits, I think I have to fold even though I'm getting some solid odds. I do want to hear some other opions though.

baronzeus · #7 10-18-2005, 07:18 PM

4. I think I see A8 no diamond at least 8% of the time here.

ggbman · #8 10-18-2005, 07:22 PM

River is like a 2. I am inclined to cap the flop to make sure i dont put in more bets than i want to on the turn when trying to extract value. It's possible that he rivered you, but generally you are not happy putting in 3 bets on the turn given the flop/turn action. If you cap the flop, you can call down from there if he continues to bet [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Danenania · #9 10-18-2005, 07:23 PM

River is pretty ugly.

Don't like the turn raise much. I think I would only make it if I felt I could fold to a 3-bet, but here your extra gutshot outs force you to call (and then the pot is too big to fold a river blank). How about a flop cap? I also think just calling down would be okay.

Lmn55d · #10 10-18-2005, 07:32 PM

yea, capping the flop sounds like a good idea. You're not folding a turn diamond then, right?