a welcome dilemma at 8/b - how to play a rut

[imported_getfunky]

Should I have raised on 5th street? I was torn because my position was poor for building a pot. But I had luckily caught a baby so I might trick the ace and didn't want any back door lows, weird straights or miracle trips to beat me cheaply. Was that too tight a raise? Should I have waited for 6th steet before raising, trying to keep this a multiway pot? Thanks in advance:

7 Card Stud High-Low ($3/$6), Ante $0.50, Bring-In $1 (converter)

Seat 1: $123.75
Seat 2: $154.20
Seat 3: $111.50
Seat 4: $117.32
Hero: $164
Seat 6: $48
Seat 7: $132
Seat 8: $146

3rd Street - (1.33 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___completes
Seat 2: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 3: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 4: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Hero: 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___brings-in___calls
Seat 6: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls___calls
Seat 7: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 8: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls___calls

4th Street - (5.33 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets
Hero: 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 6: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 8: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___checks___calls

5th Street - (4.67 BB)

Seat 1: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets___calls
Hero: 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___raises
Seat 6: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 8: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___checks___folds

6th Street - (8.67 BB)

Seat 1: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets___calls
Hero: 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___raises

River - (12.67 BB)

Seat 1: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] xx___checks___calls
Hero: 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets

Total pot: (14.67 BB)

Results:
Main Pot: $85 | Rake: $3

Seat 1: [ 4c Ac Ah Ks Jh Kc 9h ] [ two pairs, aces and kings -- Ac,Ah,Ks,Kc,Jh ]

Hero: [ 2c 2h 2s Qh 5d Jd 7s ] [ three of a kind, twos -- Qh,Jd,2c,2h,2s ]

[Aaron W.]

I think it's fine. I'd hate to wait until after 5th street to start pumping the pot. It's just unfortunate that nobody else picked up anything worth pursuing.

I probably just would have just 3-bet on 3rd after it got completed.

[DeadMoneyOC]

You should be going apeshit with this hand on 3rd and 4th after there is action.

I think 3-betting and getting heads-up against a probable pair of aces is best. Why let the 6 in cheaply to contend for half the pot when you can knock him out and in all probability win the whole thing? The ace might even cap, and then you can slow-play and represent a low hand after getting heads-up.

[benwood]

I don't think you can wait until 6th street.There are 5 1/2 bets in there,enough to start protecting.Seat 6 has received a possible straight card & a flush card.Seat 8 has live 6's.It's time to put the pressure on.Nice hand.

[imported_getfunky]

the reason i did not raise 3rd was because two players, one of whom had a ten limped in and then the ace raised. I wanted to make sure there was least one high hand in there. Had the ten raised I would have reraised. Since I caught I high card on 4th, and no one had yet picked up a low draw, I thought I would wait for a bigger street to reveal my strength. That being said, I agree with your 'apeshit' mentality - as it's important to maximize value early with these hands and get people tied into the pot. I almost always raise with these hands on 3rd, but since I always raise with playable low hands and often reraise, I don't mind slowplaying on 4th when I brick, because of my locentric image. But I think slowplaying a little too often might be a weakness for me, as there is probably more value in your style, what I call smash mouth betting. thanks.

[imported_getfunky]

I think there's merit to what you say, but as I said in another reply, I wanted to make sure that ten stayed in, since I didn't want to get stuck playing against a low hand, if the ace was going low.

[imported_getfunky]

thanks ben, that is a good point about the size of the pot and live sixes .. with trip aces it might be more reasonable to wait but I think even still I had slowplayed long enough - mostly hoping to keep in what I hoped was a pair of tens. but as you mentioned might easily be a big draw. thanks, again.

[imported_getfunky]

thanks aaron, I think all the posts reccommend more aggressive betting on 3rd street. my feeling is that I don't want to get stuck playing against just an ace going low, as I want middle pairs in there. many players limp/fold for two bets, and I wanted that ten to stick around - any thoughts?

I ran into this problem twice last night in a Stars stud8 tourney. There is an additional problem with the slow play, what happens if you wait until 6th and can't raise your hand against a board that has gotten too strong. I started with rolled up 7's and had 3-way action from two other high hands. I had caught babies on 4th and 5th so a low looked like my probable holding. But one of my opponents was showing 10 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] I raised his bet and was 3-bet. I shut down and check called my unimproved trips on 6th and 7th. My hand was good but I was forced to go passive after what started as a trap. I think if I had 3 bet 3rd st. in what was a 4 way pot it would have gotten more money in the middle and possibly tied the 3rd and maybe 4th players to the hand.

I really think that in Stud-8 players find so many excuses to call extra bets on 3rd or 4th that there is no reason to trap. Unless you are in an unusually tight game I say ram and jam. It is the differences in hands like these that make stud-8 play nothing like straight stud.