JJ-way too fast?

[tdarko]

2/4 NL no read on the villain other than the table hasn't done anything tricky yet.

there are 5 limpers to me in the CO with JJ. i raise it $20 and the blinds fold, UTG calls the $20, and a MP limper calls the $20.

stacks:

Hero- $440
UTG- $420
MP- $705

Flop is (4 4 2)pot~73

UTG checks, MP checks, Hero bets $60, UTG raises $60, MP folds, Hero reraises $200...

this little min-raise was weird here, whats my line? any suggestions?

i just thought if i was up against a bigger pair i would have seen a limp reraise before the flop and thats when i would see the fireworks, instead i saw a limp call? this hand really confused me and just wanted some help.

[Big_Jim]

Raise more PF.

This hand is very read dependant.... what does his min check/raise mean?

Against many 2/4 players, this is an auto-fold on the flop.

Against many others, I think that calling down is the way to go. Unlikely villian has a big pair, and there are lots of overpairs to this flop (which are his most likely holdings, I think). If you 3-bet, I think any pair <JJ gets away pretty easily.

Only if villian is a donk who can't lay down a hand do I like your line.

[Raven]

AS Big Jim said I think he would a reraise a bigger pair before the flop so you look ahead most of the time here.

For myself, his min check-raise look more like a smaller pocket pair wanting "to know where he stand" (hoping you are betting two overcards wich is likely here) than a big hand, as a big hand is not likely with this flop, and he would tend to usually slowplay it.

So I would just call down to not scare the underpairs and get caught only again the bigger hands, and you dont fear a free cards with his likely range of hands.

[AZK]

start off by making it 40 to go preflop

[tdarko]

[ QUOTE ]
start off by making it 40 to go preflop


[/ QUOTE ]
this seems to be the general consensus and i agree. the table had been kind of tight, standard raise by villains was $10-$12 and my standard raise had been $16-$18. there was already a medium size pot and a lot of traffic (this is why we make it $40 i know) but i didn't want to completely get rid of all action.

i think if i raise $40 here, everyone folds right? is that what i want?

[Big_Jim]

[ QUOTE ]
is that what i want?

[/ QUOTE ]
Yup.

[hit_the_set]

[ QUOTE ]
i think if i raise $40 here, everyone folds right? is that what i want?


[/ QUOTE ]

You want to take it down preflop or make it heads up.

ya raising more preflop would have gotten rid of the A4s or 22 which really i can see only has to beat, unlikely for an overpair higher than JJ as many have mentioned. but with the odds with everyone limping i can see villain having A4s and 22. tough situation

[tdarko]

[ QUOTE ]
ya raising more preflop would have gotten rid of the A4s or 22 which really i can see only has to beat, unlikely for an overpair higher than JJ as many have mentioned. but with the odds with everyone limping i can see villain having A4s and 22. tough situation

[/ QUOTE ]
thank you all, this advice was perfect. he had the four--his kicker is arbitrary b/c whether it was an Ace or six he isn't playing if i play it faster earlier. lucky me i landed a jack on 5th and got rewarded for poor play.

[AZK]

I'll take 6 bets with JJ anyday