K8s in the BB. Right play?

oreogod · #1 04-07-2005, 07:58 PM

Okay, u know those hands where u felt u played it right, but then the whole table berates u for bad play? This is one of them, I dont think so though. But Im posting this to see what u guys think of my line. I posted results because he had the exact hand I put him on.

KK is less likely with one in my hand, one on the board.

My thinking on the flop is two pair, I want to drop flush draws and clean up some outs.

Turn I should have raised it, dont know why the call Im going all in with my buyin regardless.

As far as reads: Just look at it. This is the kind of table I was dealing with. CO seems decently solid, only have two orbits with him. MP3 no read.

Absolute Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO raises, 2 folds, Hero calls, UTG calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (12.33 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, MP3 bets, CO raises, Hero 3-bets, UTG folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, CO caps, Hero calls, MP3 calls.

Turn: (11.66 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, MP3 calls, CO raises, Hero calls, MP3 folds.

River: (16.66 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero calls $4 (All-In).

Final Pot: 18.33 BB

Results in white below: 
Hero has Kc 8c (two pair, kings and eights).
CO has Ks Ah (one pair, kings).
Outcome: Hero wins 18 BB. CO wins 0.33 BB.

PS. The MP3 that folded on the turn, he had KQ.

einbert · #2 04-07-2005, 08:02 PM

When CO raises me on the turn and I see that he has less than a big blind left and we're heads up, I'm three-betting to put him all in. Because he could be semibluffing a draw and might fold the river if he doesn't connect, but we're definitely not folding the river for less than one big bet. MP3 also probably has a worse hand than yours and I want him to either fold or put more money in the pot,either option is fine but I don't want him to see the river cheaply if he has a strong draw. I don't really see him having a better hand though after he just calls our turn bet.

Other than that I think you played it perfectly, I definitely call preflop and I definitely checkraise this
flop.

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clean up some outs.

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Clean up outs against what hands? I think your play of this hand was correct but I don't understand your reasoning--how can you be 'cleaning up outs' when you have two pair?

oreogod · #3 04-07-2005, 08:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
When CO raises me on the turn and I see that he has less than a big blind left and we're heads up, I'm three-betting to put him all in. Because he could be semibluffing a draw and might fold the river if he doesn't connect, but we're definitely not folding the river for less than one big bet. MP3 also probably has a worse hand than yours and I want him to either fold or put more money in the pot,either option is fine but I don't want him to see the river cheaply if he has a strong draw. I don't really see him having a better hand though after he just calls our turn bet.

Other than that I think you played it perfectly, I definitely call preflop and I definitely checkraise this
flop.

[ QUOTE ]
clean up some outs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Clean up outs against what hands? I think your play of this hand was correct but I don't understand your reasoning--how can you be 'cleaning up outs' when you have two pair?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well besides AK being out there. I really (for some reason and not being totally sure) felt that MP3 was trailing with another K. As far as cleaning outs, wrong wordage maybe, but I really wanted to get MP3 out of this, besides the fact that I wanted flushes out (which depends they seem to trail to the end) -- anyway, I was right, afterwards in the chat MP3 had folded KQ.

I had two pair, but with what I thought was on my tail, I felt I was still vurnable.

EDIT: Which brings me to why no raise on the turn. Oh well, I was in the middle of something on this hand anyway so I call it a brain fart.

einbert · #4 04-07-2005, 08:13 PM

They're most likely drawing to three outs. AA has a better chance of catching up but AK and KQ are in really awful shape against you. Until the pot becomes very huge, you want them to put lots of bets in and not fold.

At the point of the turn, though, you would actually prefer to fold out a 3-outer (or make it incorrectly call two bets, the pot is so big now that it can correctly call one) than get an overcall from it. So I say you should have three-bet the turn, because you do the best against not only AK, KQ, etc but also against flush draws who will of course not fold on the turn but will fold 4/5 of the time on the river when their flush doesn't come in.

oreogod · #5 04-07-2005, 08:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
They're most likely drawing to three outs. AA has a better chance of catching up but AK and KQ are in really awful shape against you. Until the pot becomes very huge, you want them to put lots of bets in and not fold.

At the point of the turn, though, you would actually prefer to fold out a 3-outer (or make it incorrectly call two bets, the pot is so big now that it can correctly call one) than get an overcall from it. So I say you should have three-bet the turn, because you do the best against not only AK, KQ, etc but also against flush draws who will of course not fold on the turn but will fold 4/5 of the time on the river when their flush doesn't come in.

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Exactly I was pissed at myself as soon as I hit the call button. I was happy to see MP3 still fold though. I figured AK would be coming all the way no matter what. Cant blame him, but I think he really overplayed it.

If I was AK, I call the flop 3-bet. Check call the turn. Check call the river. I figure Im against either another K(for two-pair) or a set (flush draw likely as well). Depends, my view is tainted but I think thats the clearest line I would take with his hand. Dont know, I dont think you can fold AK here.

oreogod · #6 04-07-2005, 08:37 PM

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Other than that I think you played it perfectly, I definitely call preflop and I definitely checkraise this flop.

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Really, in all seriousness, keep posting stuff like this and u are headed straight for POTD material.

Wait, u know what, Im voting this in for Post of the Day anyway. Congradulations u have now reached poker god status.

Yes, I am bored. Dont mock me.

Entity · #7 04-07-2005, 08:40 PM

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Hero calls $4 (All-In)

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That's the only part of the hand I disagree with.

oreogod · #8 04-07-2005, 08:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hero calls $4 (All-In)

[/ QUOTE ]

That's the only part of the hand I disagree with.

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haha, yeah I was too lazy to type the numbers in (im on a laptop with no keypad) and came with the minimum buy in (60 bucks) this hand came around I think I was at 40. Kinda a sad how many more bets I could have pulled off this hand. Oh well, lesson learned, dont be a lazy ass.

I yearn for when u can just mouse click your buy in (maybe from a pull down or something)

einbert · #9 04-07-2005, 08:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hero calls $4 (All-In)

[/ QUOTE ]

That's the only part of the hand I disagree with.

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Wow I was always thinking that CO was the one all-in, but in reality you're the one all-in.

My advice was completely based on the fallacious notion that CO only had $4 left after his turn raise.

I'm going to sleep now, haven't had it for about 15 hours so it should feel good.

oreogod · #10 04-07-2005, 08:58 PM

So say we take the restrictions of money away.

Do u call the river or raise it up? (lets go with the way the hand went -- if I could I would have raised the turn)