Simple preflop question

[Malachii]

4/8 Commerce, typical juicy game full of fish. These players are real bad, they don't understand pot odds in the slightest and will chase to the river with gutshots and bottom pair in small and big pots alike.

4 loose, bad limpers to me on the button with AJo. Raise or limp behind? As I see it, the argument for raising is that I have a preflop equity edge against their typical crap and it's +EV to exploit it. The argument for limping behind is that I'll create a large pot and inadvertently make their chasing correct if I raise. I would be much more inclined to raise a hand like A5s here than AJo... am I correct in my thinking on this?

[ncboiler]

Raise it up

[Malachii]

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Raise it up

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Care to elaborate?

[newhizzle]

this is a classic example of when you shouldnt raise, a hand very similar to this is discussed in HPFAP, where you give up a bit of preflop equity in order to make your opponents postflop decisions incorrect should you hit, and to not tie you to the pot if you dont

edit: if its suited, def raise for value

[TheHip41]

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Raise it up

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Care to elaborate?

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They are going to chase regardless of pot size. Might as well put another $25 bucks in the pot right now. Also, if the flop is Kxx, you might get to check and get a free turn out of the deal.

[newhizzle]

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Raise it up

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Care to elaborate?

[/ QUOTE ]

They are going to chase regardless of pot size. Might as well put another $25 bucks in the pot right now. Also, if the flop is Kxx, you might get to check and get a free turn out of the deal.

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if there going to chase regardless of the size of the pot, wed rather have the pot be small so that they are making mistakes and we gain, when the pot is big, they are playing correctly and noone gains

see page 161 of HPFAP

[TheHip41]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Raise it up

[/ QUOTE ]
Care to elaborate?

[/ QUOTE ]

They are going to chase regardless of pot size. Might as well put another $25 bucks in the pot right now. Also, if the flop is Kxx, you might get to check and get a free turn out of the deal.

[/ QUOTE ]

if there going to chase regardless of the size of the pot, wed rather have the pot be small so that they are making mistakes and we gain, when the pot is big, they are playing correctly and noone gains

see page 161 of HPFAP

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I understand the theory of this. I had a conversation while Westley878 and I were donking around at the 5-10 game at MCC last night.

He said he woldn't raise AQo in the BB with 5 limpers because his edge equity wise wasn't that much. But seriously, they are so bad, make them put the extra SB in there with their J4s.

If they are going to chase, I'd rather get more from the dead hands before they leave. I really don't understand why everyone is worrying about the TOP here. The donkeys love to call, just bet, make them put their $$$ in their with trash.

[newhizzle]

i understand where your coming from too, you do have an equity edge, but unsuited high cards just dont play well in multiway pots, i think in this spot you are better off getting in cheaply, for one thing in a big pot your opponents will not be making mistakes when they chase, but also you will be tied in looking for your overs when you miss, i will always raise AK in this spot because your edge is greater, but with AJ i think its best to give up your preflop edge so that you have a real postflop edge when you hit, this could really go either way, but im with sklansky and malmuth

[thesharpie]

I limp AJo here so I can baffle the bad players when I raise with T9s in the same spot.

I was playing with a LAG the other day who raised with JTo UTG yet limped with good hands like AJs, they'll probably put you in the same class as that type. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[TheHip41]

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I limp AJo here so I can baffle the bad players when I raise with T9s in the same spot.

I was playing with a LAG the other day who raised with JTo UTG yet limped with good hands like AJs, they'll probably put you in the same class as that type. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

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The donkeys I'm talking about don't look any further than their 2 cards and the flop. Not raising for deception is ridiculous.

Now I agree, if I'm playing in a LPP fest, and I get AJo on the button, and get 6 limpers, I will limp. But with only 3 limpers I'm raising.

As for AQs or AQo, i'm raising that everytime in an unraised pot, it's just too good of a hand relative to what these other ppl are playing.

To illustrate my point, JJJustin is one of the better players at the MCC 5-10