PP NL100 - Busted out on KK, Please comment

[mannika]

As some background, SB is either drunk or is pretending to be. Over 40 hands, he has VPIP 50% and PFR 17.5%.

Can I lay this down anywhere? Should I have raised more on the flop to push out draws? (dont know if it would have done any good regardless)

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (9 handed)

SB ($165.85)
BB ($309.15)
UTG ($111.9)
UTG+1 ($68)
MP1 ($100.85)
MP2 ($98)
MP3 ($64.5)
Hero ($126.55)
Button ($112.45)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $1.
<font color="666666">4 folds</font>, MP3 calls $2, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises to $10</font>, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, SB (poster) calls $9, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, MP3 calls $8.

Flop: ($32) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">SB bets $15</font>, MP3 calls $15, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises to $45</font>, SB calls $30, MP3 folds.

Turn: ($137) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">SB bets $60</font>, Hero calls $60.

River: ($257) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
SB calls $50.85 (All-In), Hero calls $11.55 (All-In).

Final Pot: $319.40
<font color="green">Main Pot: $280.10, between SB and Hero.</font>
<font color="green">Pot 2: $39.30, returned to SB.</font>

[Piz0wn0reD!!!!!!]

hmmm
I would have considered folding on the turn. Tough hand.

[BK_]

i think you can fold the turn, despite his lagginess. its pretty rare that someone plays a queen that way. it is much more often trips or a flush. if the turn was a non club, i would get all in.

[Richie Rich]

When that third club fell, you should've decided if you were going to the felt with KK on the turn. Either push or fold. But don't call.

If he happened to beat you with JT, that's poker. And another reason why you should've pushed on the turn.

[mannika]

[ QUOTE ]
When that third club fell, you should've decided if you were going to the felt with KK on the turn. Either push or fold. But don't call.

If he happened to beat you with JT, that's poker. And another reason why you should've pushed on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just to respond, I was well aware that I was going to the felt after the turn regardless. Furthermore, there is absolutely no chance that a raise on the turn will cause my opponent to fold down the hand. That would just be ridiculous.

Therefore, what does it matter if I call or raise on the turn? I really fail to see how this is important at all.

[Richie Rich]

Since you were going to the felt with KK, why give him a cheap price to see the last card and an opportunity to fold on the river? Obviously you were committed, so you have to make him committed as well.

If he had AA/QQ/9-x, then oh well. But if he had JT, then that's EXACTLY why you should've pushed on the turn. Because if a blank fell on the river, he could simply fold. Hence, he was able to see the river for a discount.

[mannika]

[ QUOTE ]
Since you were going to the felt with KK, why give him a cheap price to see the last card and an opportunity to fold on the river? Obviously you were committed, so you have to make him committed as well.

If he had AA/QQ/9-x, then oh well. But if he had JT, then that's EXACTLY why you should've pushed on the turn. Because if a blank fell on the river, he could simply fold. Hence, he was able to see the river for a discount.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fair enough, point taken. I really hadn't considered the possibility that he would fold the river.

[TheTimeIsUp]

You gotta think you are behind when the flush/str8 hit. Tough laydown, but the only thing you are ahead of is AQ. Go ahead and fold the turn.

[BigToga]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this since it's the first thing I thought of - I think that your raise on the flop was too small provided you think you are still in the lead. Not only is there a flush draw, it's a straight flush draw so you have to be careful. When you raised to $45, there was now $107 in the pot and it only takes $30 to call. You priced in any drawing hand right there. This is, IMO, a big problem PP players have - their raises are too small. Be aware of the math and know the percentages so that, when you bet, you force others to make mistakes against you...

I'd probably have raised it $75-80 on the flop to price him out of the straight/flush draw- if I think he is not holding QQ or 9x. If you raise the size of the pot here (the pot is $77 when you call his raise), mathematically, he's making a mistake if he calls. If he goes all-in when you raise, then you know you're beat by QQ or a 9 and you can decide where to go from there for your last ~$50.

As for your saying that you were prepared to go all-in with KK on this hand on the turn or river, wow... You just had a pair of Kings - any 9, pair of Queens, a straight draw/flush draw on the turn beats you. A litle too LAG, IMO.

PS - Your PF play was perfect, I think...

[creedofhubris]

Yeah, I think you need to fold the turn.

Reraise bigger on the flop, fold when he comes out swinging on the turn.