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#1
06-01-2005, 11:45 PM
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Like the flush draw line
raiser postflop is TA
Should I raise rather than call when betting the flush??? Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 max, 10 handed) converter Preflop: Hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $1.5. MP2 posts a blind of $1. <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP2 (poster) checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 raises</font>, CO (poster) calls, Hero calls, SB calls, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls. Flop: (16.50 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(8 players)</font> SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, UTG+2 calls, MP2 folds, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 raises</font>, CO folds, Hero calls, SB folds, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls. Turn: (12.25 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font> UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets</font>, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls. River: (16.25 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font> UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets</font>, Hero folds, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls. Final Pot: 19.25 BB 
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#2
06-02-2005, 12:01 AM
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Re: Like the flsuh draw line
Commenting only on the flop play, given the situation, besides the draw you're kinda weak. Therefore IMM there's nothing to be gained by knocking people out reraising. What's worse is that you'd risk losing your edge by doing so....
Mike
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#4
06-02-2005, 12:16 AM
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Re: Like the flush draw line
Well I think we're obviously behind to MP3 and our K and Q outs mean absolutely nothing. When it gets to hero, 3 players have put money into the pot, and I want to keep as many in as I can. I also don't see us getting a free card very often if we 3-bet this flop. That said, I don't think 3-betting is bad... but I like how this hand is played.
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#5
06-02-2005, 12:18 AM
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Re: Like the flush draw line
[ QUOTE ]
3-bet the flop for value. We don't care if we knock people out. We will definitely get enough callers to make the raise for value. [/ QUOTE ] Besides the hand not standing up UI, how is two callers (assuming it's two and not one) for a flush draw still for value? Is it just because the pot's large, so try everything to win it ASAP? Mike
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#6
06-02-2005, 12:28 AM
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Re: Like the flush draw line
[ QUOTE ]
3-bet the flop for value. We don't care if we knock people out. We will definitely get enough callers to make the raise for value. [/ QUOTE ] Agreed. You only need 2 callers to preserve your edge, and the original raiser is certainly calling, so you need one more. No way you're folding 6 people with that A on the board.
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#7
06-02-2005, 12:29 AM
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Re: Like the flush draw line
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] 3-bet the flop for value. We don't care if we knock people out. We will definitely get enough callers to make the raise for value. [/ QUOTE ] Besides the hand not standing up UI, how is two callers (assuming it's two and not one) for a flush draw still for value? Is it just because the pot's large, so try everything to win it ASAP? Mike [/ QUOTE ] 2 Callers means Hero's fair share is 33% while his equity is ~35%. Certainly we'd prefer 3 callers or more, but this is certainly a 3-bet situation in my mind.
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#8
06-02-2005, 12:31 AM
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Re: Like the flush draw line
[ QUOTE ]
3-bet the flop for value. We don't care if we knock people out. We will definitely get enough callers to make the raise for value. [/ QUOTE ] what value? There are already 2 folds, SB and BB facing 2 cold. slim chance 6 to the turn if u call, likely 4 or 5. raise and its likely to be 3 or 4. for a value raise you must have >5 callers. either you or I are confusing pot equity with an equity edge and I don't think its me.
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#9
06-02-2005, 12:33 AM
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Re: Like the flush draw line
[ QUOTE ]
for a value raise you must have >5 callers. either you or I are confusing pot equity with an equity edge and I don't think its me. [/ QUOTE ] This would be true if we were on the turn, when a flush draw only has about 20% equity. On the flop it's about 35%. You only need 2 callers to make it profitable, more is just gravy.
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#10
06-02-2005, 12:34 AM
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Re: Like the flush draw line
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] 3-bet the flop for value. We don't care if we knock people out. We will definitely get enough callers to make the raise for value. [/ QUOTE ] Besides the hand not standing up UI, how is two callers (assuming it's two and not one) for a flush draw still for value? Is it just because the pot's large, so try everything to win it ASAP? Mike [/ QUOTE ] 2 Callers means Hero's fair share is 33% while his equity is ~35%. Certainly we'd prefer 3 callers or more, but this is certainly a 3-bet situation in my mind. [/ QUOTE ] ~35% is your pot equity. Your chance of hitting the turn is ~20% Thats the number you need to compare for a value raise on the flop. (I think)
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