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  #1  
Old 10-14-2005, 09:17 AM
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Default Top pairs and bad kickers, any advice?

This is my first post, so go easy if this is embarassingly basic...

What do people do when they flop top pair with a bad kicker? The problem is this tends to only happen in the BB when I've checked with J-4 or similar trash, which leaves me out of position for the hand. I tend to lead at the flop, especially if there's a potential flush draw or similar, as I want to protect my hand. Are people happy to give up on small pots like this and wait for a blank to hit on the turn before betting? Or if you bet and get called, do you consider yourself beaten and check/fold the turn?

I feel like I can burn up a lot of chips trying to protect bad hands, only to find I was losing all the way.

Any help gratefully received...
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  #2  
Old 10-14-2005, 09:43 AM
djoyce003 djoyce003 is offline
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Default Re: Top pairs and bad kickers, any advice?

I usually take a stab at the pot on the flop, but shut down if I get any action at all.
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  #3  
Old 10-14-2005, 09:47 AM
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Default Re: Top pairs and bad kickers, any advice?

I usually lead with top-pair, and check fold later streets if unimproved. But this very much dependant on the board. If theres a lot of draws out there and I only get called, I might think I have the best hand. But usually I have no problems letting go if I get action.
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  #4  
Old 10-14-2005, 10:15 AM
subzero subzero is offline
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Default Re: Top pairs and bad kickers, any advice?

This is how I play it (full ring). I'll assume everyone limped preflop. If a few players (three or less) see the flop, I play it like I have a good kicker. I'll bet 3/4 pot and expect to take it down most of the time. Sometimes I'll even check-raise to induce a bluff from a LP player. If I'm called, I'll have to use my reads to determine how to proceed. It's a tougher situation if I'm raised, but I can always fold at that point.

If several players (more than three) see the flop, TPWK is more difficult to play. On a weak-tight table, I may take a stab with a 3/4 pot bet. Sometimes I'll check and if it gets checked around, I'll take a stab on the turn. Of course draws are a concern. I don't like betting a draw heavy flop with TPWK, OOP against several players.
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  #5  
Old 10-14-2005, 10:15 AM
Morrek Morrek is offline
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Default Re: Top pairs and bad kickers, any advice?

Especially against weak/passive opponents (very common for me) I like check/fold flop and bet turn with TPNK, because if I bet and they call I still have no idea where I am and feel like I have to bet again to protect my hand against straight/flush draws but they usually showdown TPGK and I've burnt a reasonable amount of chips on a crap hand.
However if I check flop and it's checked around, I feel a bet on the turn gets called by worse pairs than top pairs aswell, so I'm more likely to be ahead than if I bet the flop.
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  #6  
Old 10-14-2005, 10:18 AM
fuzzbox fuzzbox is offline
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Default Re: Top pairs and bad kickers, any advice?

No need to protect a hand that doesnt figure to be much good. OOP with TPNK on a draw-heavy board multiway doesnt give you much equity, so just check-fold fairly often.

Less players, and maybe you can consider betting, but its not really worth a whole lot, and is more likely to cost you money than to make you money.
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  #7  
Old 10-14-2005, 10:29 AM
Komodo Komodo is offline
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Default Re: Top pairs and bad kickers, any advice?

If many have limped and board is draw heavy, then I think check/fold migth be best. Best case scenario is probably a 50-50 against a good draw. If there is only a few limpers and table is tigth, its probably correct to take a stab at it.
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  #8  
Old 10-14-2005, 10:38 AM
kitaristi0 kitaristi0 is offline
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Default Re: Top pairs and bad kickers, any advice?

At the lower limit tables, I'll just fold against 3+ opponents (ok, some special situations may rise when i'll bet). There's no need to get involved with a mediocre hand, when just waiting for the goods pays off big.
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  #9  
Old 10-14-2005, 10:53 AM
gunslingner gunslingner is offline
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Default Re: Top pairs and bad kickers, any advice?

check/fold
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