the dreaded min 3bet

[schwza]

we're 11-handed. $100 on empire. 11th pays 107, 10th 2*107, 9th 3*107, 1st 3k.

i've raise-folded twice in the past ~4 orbits (but none before that). i've been aggro but not a maniac. villain is not overly loose or tight. i've seen him make one fishy play (call a PC'ing cutoff raise with KT and a 6x stack), but for the most part he's been straightforward and a little passive.

i never know what to do in these spots.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t600 (5 handed) converter

Button (t6444)
SB (t14235)
BB (t11379)
Hero (t17905)
MP (t8256)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t1600</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to t2600</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls t1000.

Flop: (t6100) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets t3000</font>, Hero ?

[Potowame]

I hate when that happens , I always feel obligated to call with the odds offered. But ,once I call I feel that I have to make a big hand to cuntinue. I feel so weak tight after I check fold here about 100% of the time, but I cant see any other probable action.

If you do decied to cuntinue, I think your only action would be the CR, and hope that he has a hand that he can lay down here. He may lay down 88-JJ AK, seeing how you have shown that you will fold to resitance, it may appear that you have a big hand. But as one poster said its not wise to try and push villians off AA-KK, [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img].

I just relooked at the OP with his stack size I think you have to make your choose preflop to push or stop-in-go, once you checked its a fold. If villian had a similar stack size to yours I would check fold or CR.

[fnurt]

You can't CR. Villain only has 800 chips left.

[rockythecat99]

If you are going to continue with this hand put the button all in for his last 844. So you are getting about 2.6 to 1 on your call. I think I might check/fold this seeing as you say he is passive. He just put his whole stack down on this hand on a ragged board after you have called his reraise. This screams big pair to me (AA-JJ). I think you are drawing to a two outer and not getting the odds to call. But I am a fish what do i know. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[Potowame]

I relize that now change my post...

[Flopzilla]

I dont like your preflop action, looks weak. You had villain outchipped by 3:1; I would have initially raised 4XBB; thereby forcing him to committ all his chips if he wants to reraise.

He pot committed himself when he raised you, so why call OOP and check preflop? You're just begging him to push. I would do that only when I have a monster and WANT him to push.

I either would have folded or pushed, prolly leaning towards push.

[Roman]

[ QUOTE ]
I dont like your preflop action, looks weak. You had villain outchipped by 3:1; I would have initially raised 4XBB; thereby forcing him to committ all his chips if he wants to reraise.


[/ QUOTE ]
ummmm ya... I wish I could alwqys tell which oponnents will be comin over the top of me and their stacks before I raise.

as for the hand; if AK s in his range, I sng, otherwise fold pf. Thats a judgement call I make on the spot usually to be honest

[fnurt]

I am not at all a fan of the stop-and-go with a medium pair. People act like it is great if you manage to shut out two overcards on the flop without letting them see the last 2 cards, but what they never mention is, you end up making much less money!

Let's say he has AK and you pull the stop-and-go. After you push the flop, he needs to call around 3800 to win 9900. He has six outs twice. Do you want him to call or fold? A call would be +EV for you, and it's his tournament life on the line rather than yours, so it looks like you want this call. But by employing the stop-and-go, you often force him to correctly fold.

The true value of the stop-and-go comes when you get someone to lay down a better hand. For example, if you get him to fold 88 or 99 on the flop, that's a spectacular result. Problem is, he won't hold these cards very often, and if he does he may be willing to go to the mat regardless.

The stop-and-go is much, much better with a couple of unpaired cards, because you gain hugely every time you induce a laydown of a pair or of an ace-high that beats you. In this situation, you're looking at inducing a laydown of a hand you're already beating, which isn't nearly as important.

[dmk]

you gotta fold. either push or check/fold, no check/calling on this one.

if you don't think it'd hurt your image, i just fold to the reraise preflop.

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
you gotta fold. either push or check/fold, no check/calling on this one.



[/ QUOTE ]

interesting... i thought the only options were c/r or check/fold. he's pretty broke and my probe push would look suspicious, so i don't think he's folding 88+. the only hand i might fold out is a non-pair, which is bad for me. if i'm committing to going broke against a bigger pair, i may as well try to stack AK. cause i don't think he's checking behind any hand here.

[ QUOTE ]
if you don't think it'd hurt your image, i just fold to the reraise preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

i think it would. i had raise-folded a couple of times recently and didn't want to do it again. but yeah, i wanted to. which is funny, b/c i wouldn't have minded calling a push.