confidence issue...how do you guys feel about losing

[vkotlyar]

I play in a really lose 10-20 game. I am most certainly a winning player, and i expect to win every time i play. I realize that this is not possible, especially in a lose game where AK doesnt win often enough and 89s is good as gold. The other players are terrible. They will call with gut shots and underpairs to the river hoping to hit their sets. As you can probably guess, bad beats are a dime a dozen. In such a game, you can easily win 1000 and lose just as much playing high quality cards. My problem is that every time i lose in such a game, i begin to doubt myself. Am i really good, or am i just another delusional wanna-be who thinks that he can play better than everyone else. How can i be really good if i still occasionally lose to these clowns. I understand that my thinking is a bit off, but i was just wondering if other people feel like maybe they are no so good whenever they walk away a loser from a really good game. Also, what percentage of the time can a really good player expect to win. This question is more aimed towards tommy angelo, cleirkmeister, and the like. How do the those players that play for a living and are obviously the best player at the table all the time feel about losing.
Though I'd put this out there because even though playing poker is pays my rent, my lease, and puts food on my plate, i still sometimes feel like a loser......especially when i am by far the best player at the table.....
thanks to everyone for replying,
vitaly

[mike l.]

"whenever they walk away a loser from a really good game."

the flaw in your question is this: what you describe is not a really good game. what you describe is a wild game where many bets go in before the flop with crap and all too often junk hands take down big ones because the pot is so bloated they are not all that wrong to call. these sorts of games torture intermediate players because they cause great swings.

the best games are both very loose and very passive, games where you can gain respect and then slaughter the opposition with your better starting hands and much more aggressive betting, raising, and laydowns. predictable loose timid players are what you want to play against whenever possible, more so than wild fearless loose players who like to bet and raise with very little. i should know i play in very loose very aggressive games. these games are very profitable for expert players, but tough and frustrating for anyone else. so you need to change your perspective.

[vkotlyar]

you have guys limping in with Q4s and EP raises with KJ and Axs. Need I say more? They will also peel on a 456 2 tone board with two overcards, and call you down w 77 on a AKQ board.

[Gabe]

[ QUOTE ]
you have guys limping in with Q4s and EP raises with KJ and Axs. Need I say more? They will also peel on a 456 2 tone board with two overcards, and call you down w 77 on a AKQ board

[/ QUOTE ]
I’m sure he does. I do as well. 20/40 games, like this are quite common if not the norm in Southern CA. If you expect to win 2 out of 3 sessions I think you’ll be disappointed.

[Edge34]

Well, I'm certainly not Tommy Angelo, but if it means anything, i'll put my two cents in here real quick. First, since you're making rent and such, especially at 10/20 (where by my calculations the 1 BB/hr goal mean about 28K or so a year, give or take), you clearly are a winning player, to which I will not argue. However, since this is the case, you should know that losing nights will happen, they happen to everybody. While it may be a confidence shock to lose a grand in one session, this certainly should not harm your overall confidence in your game. Since you have found a way to make some kind of living off the game, I would just look back at what got me there. Its true that a player can remember every horrible beat with great accuracy, yet totally forget how they got where they are, which is the important part to remember. For every time a fish draws out on you, he'll miss that flush draw 3 times, and that straight draw 4 times. Stick with what got you where you are, and focus on how you're playing the game...identify any holes you may have and move on from there.

[turnipmonster]

are you talking about the PS 10/20?

--turnipmonster

[turnipmonster]

no one wins every time, and most people have big downswings, especially in high variance games like you mentioned. all the successful pros I know (not very many) are absolutely tiltless, and do not let swings affect their game in the slightest. It sounds like you are a successful pro, and if so I'm surprised you're bothered at all by downswings. Also, it's very possible and statistically likely in your career to have losing months (playing fulltime), and to break even for more than 100 hours.

just our of curiousity, what's your std. dev in the game you were mentioning?

--turnipmonster

[Tommy Angelo]

"This question is more aimed towards tommy angelo, cleirkmeister, and the like. How do the those players that play for a living and are obviously the best player at the table all the time feel about losing."

Well, since you asked ...

If I ever thought to myself that I was the best player at the table, I'd probably feel a lot worse about losing than I do.

"I play in a really lose 10-20 game. I am most certainly a winning player, and i expect to win every time i play."

I never rate any players. I do not rate them in comparison to each other, or to me. These are not empty words. I mean this to my core. And I never expect to win. And I've never meant never to mean never as much as these nevers mean never.

How do I feel about losing? I don't like it. So I try to really hard to avoid it.



Tommy

[vkotlyar]

[ QUOTE ]
just our of curiousity, what's your std. dev in the game you were mentioning?



[/ QUOTE ]

i havent calculated it out, but wins and loses are usually above 500. For example, i played four times in the last 9 days, totalling 26 hours of play. +1200 +1400 -120 -800.
Unfortunately, the last figure is rather typical and will happen around once every ten sessions. The first two are slightly bloated...i ran hot [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
And no, this isnt the PS 10-20. that game is a lot more reasonable. you can put players on a hand and occassionaly raise the turn w some king of draw and take the pot. I actually prever the PS game, but its too far away from me.
vitaly

[turnipmonster]

I have heard the PS 10/20 gets very loose late at night, but I almost never play late so I was wondering if the game is different then and that's what you were talking about.

It's a good game I think, generally soft with a few tough spots, with much lower variance than you described.

--turnipmonster