Big blind special with a lot of posters gets interesting

[Godfather80]

Texas Hold'em $0.25-$0.25 NL (real money)

UTG+1 ($4.50 in chips)
MP1 ($23 in chips)
MP2 ($28.80 in chips)
MP3 ($10.45 in chips)
CO ($25 in chips)
Button ($29.55 in chips)
SB ($11.15 in chips)
<font color="red">Hero ($25 in chips)</font>
UTG ($56.85 in chips)

ANTES/BLINDS
SB posts small blind ($0.15), <font color="red">Hero posts big blind ($0.25)</font>, UTG+1 posts blind ($0.25), MP1 posts blind ($0.25), CO posts blind ($0.25).

PRE-FLOP: Hero is dealt Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
UTG calls $0.25, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, MP2 folds, MP3 calls $0.25, CO checks, Button calls $0.25, SB calls $0.10, <font color="red">Hero checks</font>.

FLOP($1.90) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
SB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $1.90</font>, UTG calls $1.90, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP3 calls $1.90, CO calls $1.90, Button raises to $6, SB folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $12</font>, UTG folds, MP3 calls $8.30 and is all-in, CO folds, Button calls $6.

TURN($39.80) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
<font color="red">Hero bets $12.85 and is all-in</font>, Button bets $17.40 and is all-in.

RIVER($65.50) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Results later.

Upon further review, it's still an absolute trainwreck. Lemme have it.

[Andrew Fletcher]

I really can't figure out what is happening in this hand. Shove it in on the flop? What the heck does the button have? Moral of the story: it's hard to play multiway pots out of position.

[Godfather80]

[ QUOTE ]
I really can't figure out what is happening in this hand. Shove it in on the flop? What the heck does the button have? Moral of the story: it's hard to play multiway pots out of position.

[/ QUOTE ]

I considered shoving it in on the flop and I think that's the right play. Either that or fold. Button was fairly aggressive post flop, so I didn't think that he necessarily had a set. Overall, however, my reraise sucks, I think.

[Riposte]

Two pair is really tricky. I've lost a lot of money with two pair and have started to become extra wary with them.

In this situation we really need to try to put the guy on a hand. It's certainly possible you are still ahead. With a bet and 3 callers in front of him, it is unlikely he is semi-bluffing with a draw, but still possible with a straight flush draw.

If he is semi-bluffing with a straight flush draw, you only have 49% equity against him. He has 51% and is a favorite to win.

So, he could have a lower two-pair with 78. He could have also have a set with 88 or 77. It's also possible he has top-pair, with something like KQ, QJ or QT. The only problem with top pair though, is how likely is he to raise like this? We might have to discount this possibility a bit.

If we break it down with regard to his preflop and flop play we can probably put him on...
56 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 1 way, T9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 1 way, 88 3 ways, 77 3 ways, 78 6 ways, KQ 8 ways, QJ 8 ways, QT 8 ways.

You are behind 8 of his potential holdings (although with the dead money in the pot, your pot equity loss against a straight flush draw is probably covered already, so it's 50/50 with him), and ahead of 30 of his potential holdings. Top pair doesn't seem very likely to be played this way. So we might have to discount that a bit. If we discount it down to 10 ways, you are still ahead of 16 holdings. So it seems as if this is still a +EV situation.

We also have the problem of the 3 callers between you and the button, who might be on some kind of straight or flush draw.

Looks like you have to make a crying push after his reraise.

[Godfather80]

[ QUOTE ]
Two pair is really tricky. I've lost a lot of money with two pair and have started to become extra wary with them.

In this situation we really need to try to put the guy on a hand. It's certainly possible you are still ahead. With a bet and 3 callers in front of him, it is unlikely he is semi-bluffing with a draw, but still possible with a straight flush draw.

If he is semi-bluffing with a straight flush draw, you only have 49% equity against him. He has 51% and is a favorite to win.

So, he could have a lower two-pair with 78. He could have also have a set with 88 or 77. It's also possible he has top-pair, with something like KQ, QJ or QT. The only problem with top pair though, is how likely is he to raise like this? We might have to discount this possibility a bit.

If we break it down with regard to his preflop and flop play we can probably put him on...
56 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 1 way, T9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 1 way, 88 3 ways, 77 3 ways, 78 6 ways, KQ 8 ways, QJ 8 ways, QT 8 ways.

You are behind 8 of his potential holdings (although with the dead money in the pot, your pot equity loss against a straight flush draw is probably covered already, so it's 50/50 with him), and ahead of 30 of his potential holdings. Top pair doesn't seem very likely to be played this way. So we might have to discount that a bit. If we discount it down to 10 ways, you are still ahead of 16 holdings. So it seems as if this is still a +EV situation.

We also have the problem of the 3 callers between you and the button, who might be on some kind of straight or flush draw.

Looks like you have to make a crying push after his reraise.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like your analysis. I especially like "crying push". I've never heard that before.

Your probably right, the dead money makes the push +EV, but I didn't think Button was on a draw. Everybody at the table was playing by the book, calling on draws, and betting everything else. The only caveat on that is that with a bigger hand than 2 pair, everybody would slow play. Ridiculous, yes. Great table, yes.

[Riposte]

Yeah... I really think you're behind here. Just a gut feeling you get from playing with all these clowns. It's definitely fold or push. I hate two pair, I mean I HATE IT. I really would want to fold it more than push it.

But if you have a read like you say, where people slowplay sets, which they love to do all the time... then you definitely push here.

[Godfather80]

Button shows 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] for two pair.
MP3 shows J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] for pair of tens.

MHIG. Idiocy is both rewarded and punished.

[Riposte]

awesome

[Hoopster81]

I am folding to the button's raise every time

[Godfather80]

[ QUOTE ]
I am folding to the button's raise every time

[/ QUOTE ]

And you'll probably make more doing this than I made donking around. As I said, idiocy was rewarded this hand.