Girl-on-Girl Action (QQ)

[SamIAm]

I watched a friend play the $3/$6 game tonight, and wondered about his flop decision. The converter doesn't do so well if you're not in the history, so I'm writing this one by hand.

He'd been playing pretty aggressively, so they were calling him with trash more often than otherwise. Wisening to his aggressive ways by paying him off when he hit. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Here's the hand.

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5 players.
:PreFlop: Hero has QQ in the BigBlind.
UTG folds. MP calls, Button calls, SB calls, Hero raises, MP REraises, Button calls, SB calls, Hero caps, MP calls, Button calls, SB calls, Hero calls.

:Flop: 8h, 7c, Td
SB checks, Hero checks, MP bets, Button calls, SB calls, Hero raises, MP calls, Button calls, SB calls.

:Turn: Kh
SB checks, Hero bets, MP calls, Button folds, SB calls

:River: 4d
SB checks, Hero bets, MP calls, SB folds
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I'm not sure I agree with the preflop cap. If it was 10-handed, it'd be super aggressive, but 5-handed, I guess people raise with worse cards.

On the flop, would you check-raise? If you did try it, and the bet came from your immediate left, would you still raise, or wait till the turn to bet-out?

Then the overcard comes on the turn and he bets anyway. Too bold?

Thanks for your comments.
-Sam

[Siingo]

Intressting that he called his own cap preflop [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] !

If they see him as very aggressive then they will think that he bet the flop even if he have AK. Bet out on the flop. Then I think someone probably will raise and then he can reraise. And if the other person cap then he is in real problem. There are more bad things with the check/raise. They might check and then he give a freecard. I would probably bet the turn too but check the river. So many callers at the turn then he probably is beat.

[SamIAm]

[ QUOTE ]
Intressting that he called his own cap preflop [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] !

[/ QUOTE ]Right, sorry. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I was going to edit the original post after you pointed it out, but thought that would be cheating. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

The hand converter really doesn't like it if it's a hand you observed, instead of a hand you played. I had to type the hand with my fingers. How...2004.
-Sam

[dfscott]

I wouldn't cap pre-flop, but I think it doesn't make a lot of difference. I would definitely bet out the flop and 3-bet if raised to see where things go.

I actually like the turn bet -- it helps you define your opponent's hand. If you're raised, you can back off. Otherwise, I keep value betting expecting to have the best hand.

[kamelion44]

With that scenario you set up, I'm capping it preflop everytime in a standard $3-6 game. Homefry MP probably had AQo and wanted to build a big pot, or just wanted some action, or was just pissed that your friend was raising again so decided to get frisky and ram and jam. Based on your reads, the only way I'd slow down and just call here is if I thought the guy was a savvy player who could limp reraise me with AA or KK.

I think I like betting out and getting MP to protect our hands for me, and I think he does this even with missed overs (which is important since this flop cuts down on the hands you'd like for him to have...JJ is only safe one...TT-77 is now a set or a nice draw..and you're obviously still trailing to AA and KK). Considering your read of the situation, and depending on whether or not he's a player that will raise to try to win this big pot even with missed overs, I think you'll probably get raised here.

On the other hand, check-raising him only traps the field, which would be fine if you had a mortal lock, but you have a very vulnerable hand. Now let's say the Button, with his missed KQs, sighs, calls your raise, and hits his K on the river. But he couldn't have called a double bet (or he could have, but would be wrong to). I think this is a standard case where the 2+2 authors would want you to think about how best to protect your hand in this already very large pot, and I think that means betting out.

Turn and river are trickier for me...I'd bet and fold to a raise on the turn...although I might just call down since the pot is so huge and depending on my reads (but I'd be thinking a hidden two pair or set would probably wait 'til the turn to spring to life...and now any king beats me too). Depending on what I think of MP and SB, I'd either check the river or value bet if I thought they could have smaller pocket pair or just a ten.

[7ontheline]

I like the cap preflop, unless you're against a passive player who won't 3-bet without a great hand. It's not a big deal either way, as has been noted.

I lead the flop and 3 bet if raised - checkraising here doesn't do much other than build the pot and tie the players between you into the hand. If the other preflop raiser was to your right, maybe you could clean up some overcards that would have beat you by checkraising, but since he's on your left then any idiot with A9 or KJ who calls isn't going anywhere.

If he caps you on the flop or keeps raising on the turn when the K hits, you're probably toast and can call down - fold if you've got a good read on him.

[StellarWind]

Your friend is the nuts. Keep watching him.

Absent a read that CO is tight/passive or a known AA/KK trapper you win this way more than 25% of the time. You have a big edge and must cap preflop.

The flop checkraise is awesome. The pot is 16 SB. It is not possible to protect this hand with bad position and such a big pot so forget about trying. Just make some money with your nice hand.

The checkraise is great because it usually works and it doubles your profit. CO is almost bound to take the bait and Button may also bet any fair hand once both PFRs wimp out.

The big streets are standard bets. Betting gains when you are ahead and rarely costs more than checkcalling when you are behind. Who is going to raise a mere king at this point?