Pushing back against the maniac

[bunky9590]

Prima 100 NL.

Villian in this hand (maniac) has been laying 90% of his hands and all of them for some sort of a preflop raise. Hes been hitting off and on and still has $$$.

villian ($140.00) Bunky ($115.00)
Bunky has 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] in Ep and open limps.
4 limpers to maniac in the Sb who minraises to 2 bucks, BB calls, we all call.

Flop: 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Maniac wakes up and bets 12 bucks. BB cold calls.

I push all in.............

Everybody else bolts and heads for the hills.

Maniac tanks, and calls.
BB folds.

Turn: K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

River T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Anybody else push that flop?


Results: <font color="white"> Maniac flips over 79o and his draw goes for naught. </font>

[Michael Davis]

"Villian in this hand (maniac) has been laying 90% of his hands"

Was it the right or left thumb that wouldn't fit?

-Michael

[Sandstone]

Yeah, I do this move all the time. Once I've spotted a player who I know will never lay down a hand once he's put money in the pot (and there are a lot of them at this level), my money is always going all-in as soon as I get anything resembling a hand. He's going to call with any pair, or draw, just to "keep you honest" or "gamble it up" as the case may be.

[fsuplayer]

Bunky-
I think that I take the same route about half the time and the other half I raise to $35-40.

This tells everyone that you have a hand, but shouldnt lose the maniac. If he is truely awful, then just push and he'll call.

Just curious Bunky, or anyone else for that matter, if you do raise to $35 and someone other than the maniac pushes in, do you call...everytime?

Just curious as I have had this situation (set on a 3 straight) several times lately.

Bunky I guess your way gets rid of the above problem, but I would hate to push there and get called by some other lucky fellow who flopped the straight.
Maybe weak tight, maybe not.

Comments welcome.

FsuPlayer

[ClimbRock512]

I wouldn't worry about the straight, chances of someone having that are slim, and even if they do have it, chances of filling aren't too bad. Laying down top set to this board would be silly. The only time you could figure to be beat is if like 4 guys pushed in before it got to you, and in that case, you are getting odds to draw to the boat or quads. Never laying this hand down would not be a poor play(in a cash game).

[schwza]

In the biggest cliche of 2+2.... it depends on the player. If this guy is a maniac only in that he plays every pot, it's probably wrong to push. But if you've also seen him making horrible calls (like this one) on big bets, then pushing can be right.

That said, I wouldn't push. Wouldn't anybody dumb enough to call the flop push probably call a raise to 40 and then a turn push? For one, you might get other calls from people with slim odds.

FSU, I would more concerned about a straight with a higher board (and then still not very concerned). 37 and 23 are not going to be in the hand, so you're talking about only one particular hand that can beat you, a 78. You have essentially the second nut, with redraws to a higher hand. This is a monster hand and if someone happens to have the perfect hand, expect to rebuy.

[bunky9590]

Hey FSU,

Youre right, it does depend on the player. I had been just waiting to play one off on this guy and I had to fold quite a few flops when he bet big and my hands were inferior. He had just been blown off a hand an orbit or so before and had to lay it down. Probably affected his ego trip.

Yeah, the only hand I had to worry about was 78. No flush draws to bother me. I could have raised to 35-40 but that would probably set off warning bells in the maniacs head. The push to him looked more like a bluff than a made hand. He decided to gamble with the draw taking way the worst of it against my top set.

He was going to call the push with any draw (even the idiot end) gutshot + overcards,and overpairs. With the cold caller in between, he should hav erealized that it in fact was NOT a bluff when you figure to be called, but hey, what are maniacs for?

If its a tight solid player who bets there (screaming I dont have 78 but moreso a big pair. I smooth call the flop to make it look like I'm on a draw, wait for them to bet the turn then come over the top with the raise. I figured in this hand though after the bet and the call I may very well get caled by both layers in the hand. The maniac I felt was going to call, the other player then would have much better odds to call.

With better players its almost always correct to trap there if they will lay down to a flop raise.

[bunky9590]

[ QUOTE ]
You have essentially the second nut, with redraws to a higher hand. This is a monster hand and if someone happens to have the perfect hand, expect to rebuy.


[/ QUOTE ]

With the bankroll I have for this game (like 35 buyins) I can get the money in and if he hits, I dont lose sleep over it. I figured even if he did show me 78 I had 10 redraw outs on the turn to stomp him.