This was brutally painful...you guys bet this river with 3 others in?

[DpR]

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (8 handed)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 raises, MP1 folds, Hero 3-bets, CO calls, Button calls, SB folds, BB calls, UTG+1 caps, Hero calls, CO calls, Button calls, BB calls.

Flop: (20.40 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, CO calls, Button calls, BB calls, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (12.70 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, CO folds, Button calls, BB calls, UTG+1 calls.

River: (16.70 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero checks, Button checks.

Final Pot: 16.70 BB

[lil']

I would have stopped betting sooner. You have nothing, you're proabably not winning, and your bet will not win you the pot.

I'm certainly not betting the river for the same reasons.

[Joe Tall]

I'm not sure if I would even bet the flop versus 3-opponents here. How many opponents were you likely to lose with a flop bet?

I think you may have brought up a classic way to overplay AK.

Welcome to the forum,
Joe Tall

[Warik]

This thing was capped preflop. Unless your opponent is a complete maniac, you're tied with AK to split the pot. With 4 opponents along for the ride, I don't think I can bet this turn, especially since it's very likely that the A or the K that I need to win this pot is sitting in someone else's hands... and he might have 2 of them.

In a heads-up or or 3-way pot it's a different story, but with 3-4 others around, I think you overplayed AK.

[Jonny1022]

I wouldn't bet that river either. Really, this flop could have been worse for you, but not much, and likely leaves one of your opponents dancing a little jig somewhere across the country/globe. You have both the cutoff AND the button calling three cold, and UTG+1 capping, neverminding what the BB might have. Between CO, button and UTG+1, I'd be assuming, by the end of the preflop action, that I am pitting my AK against QQ somewhere in the mix (and possibly worse). Awfully hard to call 3 cold with JJ, but that's another possibility. And of course, there are those who call three cold with AQs or AJs, but having two of them do this move in the same hand is a bit of a stretch. Might be another AK, a real drag, esp. in spades.

So, given the flop that comes, things are looking bad. JJ or QQ will see the showdown for sure if an A or a K don't show on the turn or river, so bluffing this one down will be tough. That leaves winning it by making the best hand, AKA managing an A or K on turn or river. How happy would you be to see, for example, A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]? K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]? Even the non-spade aces and kings might not be totally safe, depending on UTG+1's capping standards.

Put on the boots of the enemy. Somebody with AKo trying to bluff this pot is probably your opponents' dream moneymaking scenario, and improving your hand is too likely to improve someone else's to make it worth a shot. This flop missed you; I'd say maybe take those bets you would have fired into QQ and instead, pay your blinds with them and sift through another ten or twenty starting hands/preflop betting textures, till you find a situation more to your liking.

I'd be fascinated to hear how this one turned out, as I can imagine a lot of different scenarios. There's so many people calling so many bets preflop that at least one of the cold-callers is probably sniffing some bad paint (which, it seems like, was your own read). I'll go ahead and root for the BB with pocket sixes. (I would be rooting for the hero, of course, except the 'brutally painful' subject line kinda tips the ending...)

hang in there, (with tptk! [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img])
jonny

[DpR]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I was looking for a way out of this one even while betting. Everyone kept checking to me so I bet the flop and turn. At no point do I think I had a great chance to take it down, nor did I even consider betting the river. When I saw the hand that won it was painful since a river bet takes down a very nice pot for me (actually the player said he almost folded rather than checking the river!)

I think I knew the answer to this one, but just wanted some reinforcement that it would be crazy to bet on the end here despite everyones complete passiveness. Upon reflection I definitly agree that I overplayed it as it is. Just with all that money and everyone checking to me it was tough to check it through....Here are the results.....

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (8 handed)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 raises, MP1 folds, Hero 3-bets, CO calls, Button calls, SB folds, BB calls, UTG+1 caps, Hero calls, CO calls, Button calls, BB calls.

Flop: (20.40 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, CO calls, Button calls, BB calls, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (12.70 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, CO folds, Button calls, BB calls, UTG+1 calls.

River: (16.70 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero checks, Button checks.

Final Pot: 16.70 BB

Results in white below: <font color="white">
BB shows 3s 6s (two pair, tens and threes).
UTG+1 shows Ad Kc (one pair, tens).
Hero shows Ac Kh (one pair, tens).
Button shows Kd Jd (one pair, tens).
Outcome: BB wins 16.70 BB. </font>

[chesspain]

I don't think anyone except for sthief even bets the turn [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[BigBaitsim (milo)]

I've been known to bet the turn, but I also overplay AK sometimes. I really need to stop that.

[Jonny1022]

LOL! Quite a punchline! The more I thought about your hand today the more I thought you'd reveal that the 3 hit somebody and they hung on till the showdown with it. I think calling another two bets with 63s preflop in this kind of pot is, to put it mildly, rather gutsy, but this player's post-flop play actually makes the most sense of any of the hands contesting this pot, considering the spade draw. That you were up against not one, but two other AK hands is pretty ponderous too! And three cold with KJd is pure suicide, way worse than 63s for two more.

This was a fluky hand, and if you saw the same sequence of events unfold a thousand times, I don't think it would turn out that way more than one in ten, to be conservative. Most of the time that river check saves you a beaten bet. The consolation prize is that at least your original read was solid. Muck a bit more liberally and idle down just a bit on the bluffing and you'll tear those guys apart... which perhaps you already do...

Jonny

[DpR]

a total fluke that no one had anything with 4 in for 3 bets pre flop. Hurts to see that 16BB go to someone who almost folded rather than check the river! lol