KQs against a PF 3 bet

Alobar · #1 04-27-2004, 02:24 PM

just sat down so I have no reads

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG folds, Hero raises, UTG+2 folds, MP1 3-bets, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO calls, Button folds, SB calls, BB folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (13 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players) 
SB checks, Hero bets, MP1 raises, CO calls, SB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (9.50 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players) 
Hero checks, MP1 bets, CO calls, Hero calls.

River: (12.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players) 
Hero bets, MP1 raises, CO folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 16.50 BB
Main Pot: 16.50 BB, between Hero and MP1. > Pot won by MP1 (16.50 BB).

Results in white below: 
Hero shows Kc Qc (two pair, kings and queens).
MP1 shows Ks Kd (full house, kings full of eights).
Outcome: MP1 wins 16.50 BB. 

thoughts?

sfer · #2 04-27-2004, 02:34 PM

I play it the same. You pretty much have to bet the flop, as distasteful as it is, to try to get the CO and SB to fold.

bisonbison · #3 04-27-2004, 02:36 PM

looks good to me.

sweeneyagonistes · #4 04-27-2004, 02:37 PM

yeah, that's a toughie. i play 2/4 quite a bit and even if you had been at the table all day with the guy the play might not have been any easier, unless you discovered this strange habit of his to push immediately with an unbeatable hand. if he reraised in MP i'd say you pretty much have to assume high pocket pair as most of the players at those tables will mostly cold call with AKs. even still, your play of this hand seems willfully self-decieving. you could only have him on really 5 hands: AA, AKs (unlikely given the reraise, although his bet on the flop makes it more likely), KK, QQ, JJ, KQ, or AQs. if you put him on these hands, then calling the raise on the flop is insanity, although the check-call on the turn makes sense. but even though you hit the queen on the river, think about it. AA? beats you. KK beats you, QQ, any 8, like A-8 (people do stay in for 3 with A8 suited at 2/4 on party), even JT. so really, continuing in this hand, even past the flop, seems to me to be a mistake, but even if you decide to play, the bet on the river was a waste any way you look at it, because you know that if you get called, at best you will split, and calling that raise is another 4 down the drain.

PokerBob · #5 04-27-2004, 03:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
just sat down so I have no reads

thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

My thoughts:
I like a limp here for several reasons
1.) You have no idea what the table is like sooooo....if is loose, well, your hand plays well in a mulitway pot, so why drive them away??.......if it is tight your hand plays well short handed, but if you are raised at a tight table you could be dominated by AK or AQ or (KK [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]).....so since I'm a wimp, I limp.

2.) Why would MP1 raise the flop and possibly drive out the CO? Granted, the CO cold-called 3 preflop, but then let HIM 2-bet the flop and maybe Hero 3-bets. Am I in the wrong here? This baffles me.

BigEndian · #6 04-27-2004, 04:05 PM

CR the flop. If he 3-bets then you have some useful info. Lead the turn regardless and fold to another raise against a typical opponent. Or, check-call the turn/river against someone who you think might try to push you off.

- Jim

JTG51 · #7 04-27-2004, 04:07 PM

What hands are the CO and SB going to fold on the flop that you actually want them to fold?

When they're behind they're almost always going to have two outs or less, and they certainly aren't folding a better hand.

sfer · #8 04-27-2004, 04:19 PM

D'oh. Good point. I didn't notice the flop was paired. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

brian0729 · #9 04-27-2004, 04:23 PM

I like the C/R on the flop as well. This is a good flop for you hand. I would check call this river and I do not like the bet. What hands does the average 2/4 Party player 3bet pre flop with that you are ahead of now?

bakku · #10 04-27-2004, 06:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
What hands does the average 2/4 Party player 3bet pre flop with that you are ahead of now?

[/ QUOTE ]

AK