Strategy Dilemma......

[stickman]

With the recent "Poker Boom", I am finding tables filled with loose passive players. Sounds great, but for me it isnt.
Let me give you a little history. I have been playing poker for 10 years (cardrooms and private games). I have kept track of all vital statistics i.e. w/l, hours played,limits,etc. Since this poker boom my profits are down. Over the last 2 years my profits are down ~30%.
I have analyzed my records over and over again and have concluded that my major losses are coming in games with loose passive players. I define a loose passive player as a player who calls alot and does not bet their strong hands. I guess you could call them "Calling Stations".
I play in a private game (that used to be JUICY). However, new players have come and gone and the current 8 man set up contains 4 "calling stations". These guys see all 7 cards 70-80% of the time. Common logic dictates that they go broke, but they DO NOT.
A friend and I have a working thesis that the more of this type of player in a game, the less skill involved. It is basically now a card holding contest. Anyone care to expound? How about strategys? Anyone have any? Thanks in advance.

[bisonbison]

Loose passive games are a gold mine. You have to adjust.

[stickman]

Can you suggest specific adjustments???

[bisonbison]

Read the microlimits forum here. All the strategies for microlimits are those for loose-passive games. In short, don't bluff, play multiway hands, raise for value.

If you can beat Party .5/1, you are well on your way to beating your local loose-passives.

[banditbdl]

Try playing in your home game for one night and don't make a single bluff. No bluffs, no semibluffs, no "I wanna take this pot" moves at all. Bet your big draws for value, because it'll be there with 7 players in, but don't think you're running a semibluff. Try this for a few hours and see how it goes.

Also, what game/s do you guys play?

[MaxPower]

It seems like you have developed a style that will beat your private game and now that your private game has changed, your style isn't as profitable. So you do need to make adjustments.

Calling stations are the most profitable types to play against. The times they outdraw you are more than made up for by the number of times they don't outdraw or pay off with a worse hand. They also never punish you when they have the best of it. Just don't try to bluff them. As you add more calling stations to the game your hourly rate should go up (as long as you know how to play them). However, there are diminishing returns as you add more of them. Still, I would happily play in a game with me and 9 calling stations.

The best thing for you would be to go the Small Stakes forum and post some hands that you played. You will get the advice you need.

There are many people who can beat a certain game, but are not necessarilyy very good poker players. I hope you are not one of them.

[Gamblor]

"...Oh, sorry, we were talking about chocolate?"
"Zat vas ten minoots ago!"

Ich bin ein Springfielder!

[sthief09]

hahahaha and I thought I was the only one who got a vision of Homer dancing through the Land of Chocolate every time I see MaxPower's location...

[Al_Capone_Junior]

In Psychology of poker, loose passive games are listed as the easiest to beat. By all accounts, this should be 100% true. I am not disagreeing with my friend Dr. Al.

However, when Dr. Al and I play poker, he loves it when the game is loose passive, and I hate it. Conversely, he dislikes the loose-aggressive ones, while I love them.

Al can beat the loose-passive games better than I. I believe this has to do with the fact that he's more patient than I. He is also tighter than I am. I can't stand loose-passive, because the only weapon you really have most of the time is the value bet. Drives me nuts, I bet, they all call.

In loose aggressive games, I shine. I switch seats to get into favorable position against the aggressive players. I raise them, check-raise, and otherwise am able to make "moves." I have enough gamble in me to be able to stand the swings of playing against people who will three-bet with K9o before the flop. Al just doesn't have as much gamble as me, thus he doesn't like the loose aggressive games like I do.

Once I was playing in the mirage. Loose-passive as hell. I raise, seven callers. I fold every hand for five orbits, then come out raising under the gun, seven callers. Losing in what should be the best game in the room. I said "what this game needs is a maniac to fire things up. Well, he showed up, and the pots got big. A couple nice hands later I was winning instead of losing.

Style has a lot to do with what types of games we do well in. I like loose-aggressive, Al likes loose-passive. Find the niche you play well in, and select your games accordingly.

When it comes to your home game tho, you're going to have to adjust. Play tighter. Don't bluff or semi-bluff as much. Value bet with more hands.

al

[Louie Landale]

The problem is probably that you are still trying to "outmaneuver" them: In a real game you may get away with stealing with a gut draw on the turn when everybody checks; but not in this game. You gotta give that up. But no, its NOT a "card holding" crap shoot either.

Loose passive games are great since you get paid off when YOU make a reasonable hand but they let you draw cheap. This STRONGLY favors drawing type hands like small pairs and suited connectors: play more of them. You also need to change your mind-set about your bread-and-butter big pairs: these hands do better in these games but not a whole lot better; but your swings will be wild.

The main "feel" you need to develop is when to bet the marginal hands for value or not. Sometimes you can bet A high for value; other times it takes 2nd pair or better. The other main "feel" is that you need to call more often with the weaker pairs because the pot is so big. But since that's REAL risky and touchy you are better off not playing hands that are likely to MAKE weak pairs; like T9o.

Forget about clever check-raises that only work when they "narrow the field": you are paddling the wrong direction in a very strong current. Assume there will be a show down and the loose players will never lay down a winner.

Loose passive games favor discipline and judgement; not spectacular plays. Accept that and you'll do fine; otherwise you won't.

- Louie