How to play KK pre-flop?

aces_full · #1 02-23-2004, 10:34 AM

After making a lucky play with A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] the poker gods decided I needed to be punished for playing bad cards. Last night I entered A $10 single table tournament. The other players are pretty loose and I just played tight until I could get some chips. Problem was, I never got any cards that were worth playing. One player had been eliminated, and I was in 7th place with 850 chips. I don't recall off hand what level we were at, but it was still pretty early in the tournament. I get my cards and lo and behold, KK finally something worth playing. At this point, I'm just happy to be able to steal the blinds and keep playing, so I come out and raise 100, hoping my opponents noticed my tight play, and will just fold. Sure enough, the players fold one by one until I get raised 100. This raise knocks out everyone between us as well, and we are heads up. My logic here is similar to my play in limit poker, raise back to see where I stand. Unless I'm up against AA I have the best hand. So I re-raise 200 hoping to move my opponent off his hand. Going into this hand, he only had about 200 more chips than me, so I was hoping he didn't want to risk it here. He comes over the top and re-raises me all in for my 450 remaining chips. I called. He turned over A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]10 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. I figured it didn't look all bad. I was a favorite to win the hand. He made a pair of tens on the flop, the turn was a blank, and of course, the river was a 10, and I busted out in 9th place.

My question is, should I have played this differently? Seems like I can win huge pots on lucky draws with crap cards, but every time I get a great starting hand I get busted out of the tournament. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] Happened to me one other time too. I had KK on the button, several limpers in front of me. I came in for a big raise, everyone folds, but the player to my immediate right re-raises me all-in, we are both even in chips, and I call. He turns over AQo! Well he flops a queen and rivers an ace-10th place finish for me [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

agenbite · #2 02-23-2004, 10:52 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Seems like I can win huge pots on lucky draws with crap cards, but every time I get a great starting hand I get busted out of the tournament. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] Happened to me one other time too. I had KK on the button, several limpers in front of me. I came in for a big raise, everyone folds, but the player to my immediate right re-raises me all-in, we are both even in chips, and I call. He turns over AQo! Well he flops a queen and rivers an ace-10th place finish for me [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll take KK vs. AT each and every time, and get all my chips in the middle pre-flop without hesitation. I'm sure what "seems like" every time is not, but just another case of selective memory. The 3 times out of 10 you lose with KK vs. AT sting, while the 7 times you win for some reason are quickly forgotten. I think you played the hand perfectly, your opponent overplayed a marginal hand and got lucky.

Just my 2 cents.

unfrgvn · #3 02-23-2004, 10:56 AM

I'm not one of the real experts here, but I would have raised a little more on the first raise, say to T150. If he re-raises me I would have gone all in. This way you give him another chance to fold. With you just min re-raising his re-raise, you give him hope that you will fold to his all in. If you go all in, that hope is gone for him, and he SHOULD understand that he is probably a big underdog at that point. He may still call and suck out, but that is the way I would play it.

As far as Axs, that is a hand I love to see a cheap flop with. You just have to understand if an A comes that you are probably behind, but if you flop some flush cards you can win some big pots.

Doug

Bozeman · #4 02-23-2004, 11:59 AM

"My logic here is similar to my play in limit poker, raise back to see where I stand. "

While your play looks fine, your logic here is fuzzy. You are not raising to see where you stand, since you will call any reraise, and be happy about it (unless it happens to be AA). You are raising to get more money in the pot while you are most likely the favorite, because you are playing this pot to the showdown, and probably want your opponent to do so as well.

Craig

jaydoggie · #5 02-23-2004, 12:22 PM

he had the worst hand going in, but he knew if he made his hand he could bust ya!

also doyle says in supersystem AA/KK either win a small pot or lose a big one.

but in all reality there's nothing more you can do than waht you did. lets break it down. say you just call. the flop comes ten high, he bets you push. theres no way he gets away from TPTK when he's reraised preflop. thus, the turn is still blank, and the evil river is still going to fall the same way.

aces_full · #6 02-23-2004, 12:40 PM

If I had to do it over again, I would go all-in when he re-raised me. His hand wasn't good, and when I fired back a small re-raise, he probably figured he could beat me, or bully me off my hand, costing me half my chips. By coming over the top of him, I would be the one forcing him to make the big decision. If he called, I still would have lost, but that's poker.

jaydoggie · #7 02-23-2004, 12:54 PM

i promise no matter how you played that hand, ATs wasnt going anywhere. not because its a great hand, but because to your opponent it was.

if you went allin cold, he would call.
if you limped and he raised you push in he calls.
if you limp he limps he hits his T on flop, he bets you push he calls.
if you raise he calls, he hits his ten same scenario.

100 of 100 times this moron was getting all his chips in with that hand. you had the best of it, and got rivered. happens every 2 or 3 hands :\ wait til the underpairs start catching set after set, or making flushes/straights against your kings. then you'll know what frustration is.

JARID · #8 02-23-2004, 02:15 PM

You said that you wanted to re-raise to "see where you stand." Well...he pushed you all in, thus represetning aces. If you were not going to fold to the AA representation (which I believe 99.9% of one table tourney players would not, including myself) then why such a small re-raise to allow him to come over the top? Shove all your chips in and give him another chance to fold. Problem is, in one table tournaments, these knuckleheads view A10s as an all in hand, so you will just have to take your lumps in stride. Fact of the matter is though, you were about 67% favorite which is by no means bulletproof.

JARID · #9 02-23-2004, 03:36 PM

This is too creepy. I was just playing in a NLH tourney and was dealt KK. Big Blind was at 30. UTG+1 doubles the blind, folded to me and I raise to $175. Raiser calls and flop comes Q73, two clubs. He pushes all in and I call. Turn is a blank and river is an Ace. I show my KK and he shows me a10off. Alas, I will listen to my own advice and take my lumps in stride.

Richie Rich · #10 02-24-2004, 07:44 PM

Check out http://twodimes.net/poker/?g=h&b=&d=...+Kd%0D%0AAc+Tc

Turns out you were only a 2:1 favorite before the flop. Although cowboys are a great starting hand, realize that they're just a pair of kings. Stuff happens, I would know. Bad beats (and a little bit of tilt) made me go down $500 while playing tight, yet aggressive, over the past two weeks.