Bad Play for Big Pot?

[CardCuda]

Paradise $1-2 Very Loose Wild Game 60% seeing flop, pot is raised pre-flop everyhand. No real reads on anyone. This is my first orbit. Everyone seems loose-aggressive.

I'm in the CO with - 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Pre-flop -

Limped to EP2 who raises, ALL call. [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

(I called this raise 9s7s is a decent multi-way hand and pot odds what the hell)

10 see the flop -

9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Sweet (Could do without the hearts though)

SB Folds, BB Checks, UTG bets, EP1 folds, EP2 Raises, MP1 raises, MP2 folds, LP1 Folds, I cap, button folds, BB calls, EP2/MP1 call.

Turn = 3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Crap!!! [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

Okay I know I'm beat but that pot is huge!!

BB checks, UTG checks, EP2 Checks, MP1 Bets, I call, BB raises, UTG folds, EP2 Folds, MP1 calls, I call.

River - 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Salvation!!! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]


BB Bets, MP1 Raises, I raise, BB Caps, MP calls, I call.

MP shows - A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
BB Shows - J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I only had 5 outs lucky I know. Correct pot odds though? Should I have even chased the river? Would have been a huge beeotch if I'd a folded on the turn. Comments welcome.

[fluff]

On the turn, I count 4 outs for you: two 9s and two 7s. Still that's a 11:1 shot at a 21 BB pot, so calling is automatic.

When raised behind you, but you're closing betting, it's mandatory to call the gazillion BB pot.

[CardCuda]

Ugh your right 4 outs (that's worse) at the time and today I thought I had 5 for some reason - I'm an idiot - lol.

[BugsBunny]

I make it 4 outs (one of the 2 remaining 9's or 7's), not 5 (you had to hit your boat). I think you can disregard someone sitting on KK since the only preflop raise came from EP2 and he folded.

But even with 4 outs, if I counted correctly you have 21BB in the pot. I would have cold called a raise here to chase to the river. It's a little short for a cold call (should be 23 BB), but figure that if you hit you'll collect additional from the flush, plus there are people still to act (at least one of who will call) and the implied odds make it worth it. For a 1 bet call it's not even close - you have a nice overlay. If MP had raised with his nut flush instead of calling you still would have been right to call.

[MaxPower]

I'm not sure I like you call before the flop even with that many players. I would certainly play for one bet.

You have to call on the turn because of the pot size, but you should consider raising. Just in case there is not a flush out there you want someone to fold a heart.

[TheRake]

I agree this is tempting to call BTF with this huge pot, but I think you need to fold this. You still have 3 people left to act behind you and if the table is aggressive like you say there is a decent chance this might be 3-bet, but hey no one is laying thier hand down now.

On the turn there is almost no drawing hand you can't call with...This pot is HUGE!!! If my math is correct the pot is giving you 19:1 on a 10.5:1 draw (4 outs) and the implied odds could be big also if you hit one of your 4 outs (at least 6 more BB)....Wow my head is spinning [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

I Want one!! question is would I have ever enetered this pot?

TheRake

[CardCuda]

Yeah -

9s7s is kinda like looking through beer goggles at a Jenny Craig Convention. Looks prettier than it really is....

Usually would muck this in a heartbeat pre-flop. But sheesh...what a hand....Was hoping for the miracle flop - straight flush, 3 9's etc... but of course that would've negated all the action!!! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[spamuell]

I had to make this post because 97s is the exact example used in The Complete Book of Hold'em Poker by Gary Carson.

Regarding 97s in a large multiway pot in a "loose wild game" with 6 players in for two bets and a limper who would be crazy to fold and the blinds left to act, TheRake said:

[ QUOTE ]
I agree this is tempting to call BTF with this huge pot, but I think you need to fold this.

[/ QUOTE ]

Quote from Gary Carson's book: "Based on Turbo Texas Hold'em simulations, 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], from late position, against a field of over 5 to 7 loose players, will win over 20% of the time. That makes the hand about a 4:1 underdog."

Given this, our Hero should be thinking about raising the 97s from here, definitely not folding. It's annoying that I have to go to bed now (early start in the morning), I won't be able to reply to any posts for around 20 hours, because I feel this thread could get interesting.

[Dylan Wade]

Yes, I've read similar advice from him on RGP.

Abdul Jabib's site also suggests raising with suited connectors when facing many loose limpers.

The key here though is that these players are loose. So you're basically facing 7 random hands, where suited 1-gappers are going to win more than their fair share. However, if you're facing 7 tight limpers, this is a different story alltogether, as 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] will not win enough against 7 above average hands. In fact, if at least the initial raiser is tight, you might not want to get involved. If he's a maniac, and get's called by several loose callers---- I say a re-raise is in order.

Personally, I don't keep a good read on the tables at party, since I'm playing 3 at once. So, I'll usually limit myself to doing this with "zero-gappers" and big suited cards.

Related to this. I always find it strange that some posters on here like to think a 3-bet preflop automatically means that player is holding AK, AA, or KK. If there are a bunch of loose limpers involved, if I'm in, I'm in raising just to get some more "dead money" in the pot. You know, these guys limping with T5o..... the money they put in pre-flop is "dead money" as far as I'm concerned.

[TheRake]

[ QUOTE ]
Quote from Gary Carson's book: "Based on Turbo Texas Hold'em simulations, 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], from late position, against a field of over 5 to 7 loose players, will win over 20% of the time. That makes the hand about a 4:1 underdog."

Given this, our Hero should be thinking about raising the 97s from here, definitely not folding.

[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting! Guess that's why I won't be writing any books in the near future [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

TheRake