WLLH Pre-flop question

[Warik]

How does one deal with a preflop situation where a raise is made after you've made your decision according to the WLLH guidelines?

For example...

Page 41 says that I want to call preflop with KJs, but page 40 says "Call with TT and AJs" in the event of a "raise in front of you," which I mean assumes that everything lower than that gets folded.

But what if the raise happens after me?

i.e. I'm UTG, I call the blind, then the button raises. Do I FOLD because I was raised or do I CALL because it wasn't a "raise in front?"

Or consider page 44 that says I can raise ATo. So I'm in MP, I raise ATo, but the button re-raises. Do I fold because I was re-raised or do I call because the raise didn't happen "in front?"

I've had situations where the flop would have given me the nuts but I folded because of a raise that happened after my call, but I've also had situations where I called the raise anyway and got bodyslammed. Which is the correct play according to WLLH standards?

Thanks.

[Sarge85]

You definately do not want to fold for PF for a hand your already choosen to be in.

Either re-raise, or call, folding would be terrible.

[artman]

Hi Warik,

At limit hold'em especially low limit you generally do not fold a hand you were willing to play simply because you got raised or reraised. It would be a different matter if there was a double raise.

Laterzzzz
ARTMAN

[Warik]

Thanks! I'll call the raises that take place after I've taken action and only call double raises if I'm holding a monster. Lee Jones should have probably made this clearer because it left a lot of room for interpretation.

Thanks again!

[Ed Miller]

Thanks! I'll call the raises that take place after I've taken action and only call double raises if I'm holding a monster. Lee Jones should have probably made this clearer because it left a lot of room for interpretation.

Typically, if you limp in for one bet, you should always call one more bet back to you. If it is two bets back to you after you've limped in, you should call with pocket pairs most of the time (with some exceptions), but think about folding hands like suited connectors.

So you don't necessarily need a "monster" to call a double raise (indeed, if you had a "monster" like a big pair, hopefully you would have raised in the first place and not limped in), but you'd much rather be calling that double raise with a hand like 44 than a hand like KJo or 97s.

[chaos]

I don't think you should be raising with ATo from middle position unless the game is tight enough that you have a good chance of stealing the blinds. (Not likely in most LL games.)

What is this raise going to accomplish? In low limit games people love to play any Ace. Your raise will discourage them and these are the people you want in when you hold ATo. Players with an Ace and a better kicker will be coming in either way. So raising chases out the people you can beat and costs you twice as much to play against better hands.

[Ed Miller]

chaos is correct. This particular piece of advice in WLLH is bad. Even worse is the advice to raise four limpers from LP with A9o. That advice is terrible.

[blackaces13]

The info you gave from the book is not contradictory. Calling a raise cold and calling a raise behind you when you already have a bet in are COMPLETELY different, in fact you should pretty much NEVER fold for 1 raise behind you if you limped in.

The important difference here is that if an EP player raises and you are in MP, then its 2 small bets to get into what is now a pretty small pot. But if you limp-in in EP and get raised by someone in LP, now you only have to call 1 small bet to enter what is almost certainly going to be a very big pot. So you can be way looser when calling, basically call anything.