WPT Bans Deal Making

[eMarkM]

According to Paul Phillips (who made a deal with Judah in a WPT event that was reported in SI). I have to say I agree with all his points. Understandable from a certain TV audience POV, but it's going to have some unintended side effects. What do 2+2ers think?

PS: normally I'd post the Google version of the thread instead of recpoker, but it hasn't appeared there yet.

[slamdunkpro]

I played at the WPT event at the Borgata this weekend and this was a fairly hot topic.
The WPT wants to “drive the competition” so that the events are “true” but….

First, and I think foremost is the WPT doesn’t understand that it’s OUR money in the prize pool. Kick some $$ in or leave it be.

Second, if the WPT wants everything “upfront” then stop seeding the room. At the Borg, everyone got a random table/seat EXCEPT the WPT “Stars”. They were deliberately spread out so they didn’t knock heads too soon.

Third, I don’t think any player should be allowed to own another piece of a player in the same tourney. Also, the WPT should not be allowed to sponsor players in their own tournaments.

If the WPT wants a true “level playing field” then fine – no deals, no seeding, no sponsorships. If they want the “Phil, Phil, Howard, Jenifer, and Annie show**” then put up all the prize money and just play the final table.

** these names were selected at random

[HDPM]

He makes some decent points, but the move to ban deals is a necessary first step if people really do want tournament poker to be respected. It may not really work given the nature of it and the lack of a real enforcement mechanism. But eventually there will be an enforcement mechanism. If poker players really want added money in tourns and really want to be treated like other sports (I don't care about this at all BTW), deals must be banned. ANd players caught violating the rules need harsh consequences, like a lifetime ban from the WPT or an enforceable suspension from major tournaments or something.


The point about the players paying all the prize fund is a good and legitimate point. However, it does not mean the WPT shouldn't or can't try to ban the practice. The WPT is trying something new and is bringing publicity to the game. This added publicity draws players into the field. And this factor will increase. This new money is dead money a lot of the time. As the publicity increases, players who are not familiar with or who are uncomfortable with deals will enter. Thus, the WPT has every right to ban the practice. The players who want to make deals have every right not to play. I can understand why they think it is wrong to ban deals. That's why they should not be forced to play.

I don't see how this will really backfire. If some players don't enter, nobody will really care. If anything, they would rather see the next Chris Moneymaker win instead of some borderline hustler type dealmaker. I mean, who is going to pass on the WPT events for this reason? Only guys you don't care about at all. Now, if deals get made anyway secretly, the WPT might not care. That is, if it is truly a secret. If it gets out they will have to ban players. At that point it might look like a cheating scandal. But I think everything can be handled in a way to avoid this.

I think the policy is mostly upside for the WPT with very little downside. It might even affect what other big tournaments do.

Disclaimer: As I said above, I don't care much about tournament poker. I do care about poker surviving. To the extent tournament poker contributes to the overall health of the game, I think the no deals policy is good. Because I think the future health of poker has little to do with the interests of a few tournament specialists.

[Glenn]

". At the Borg, everyone got a random table/seat EXCEPT the WPT “Stars”. They were deliberately spread out so they didn’t knock heads too soon."

They really did that? If that's true it's really shady... If I were in the event and found out they did that I'd want out and want my money back.

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Everyone:

I just thought I would point out that I called for an end to all deal making in tournaments a couple of years ago via a column in Poker Digest. For those interested it also appears in my book Poker Essays, Volume III and is called "Keeping Poker Honest."

Best wishes,
Mason

[slamdunkpro]

[ QUOTE ]
They really did that? If that's true it's really shady... If I were in the event and found out they did that I'd want out and want my money back.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, they really did that - it's really not too different than seeding in tennis although I still don't like it. Once TV gets involved its "Jordan Rules" for the stars. Plus some of the advantage gets broken down as tables get broken up and combined.

I didn't stay all night on Sunday to see who made the final 6 or for the final table on Monday but I know the producers were taking gas as their stars were getting busted out by the locals on Sunday.

[slamdunkpro]

If they want tournament poker to be truly honest then:

1. Ban all deals

2. Eliminate all the "Jordan Rules" ie; seeding, sponsorship by the tournament itself.

3. Ban players selling off themselves to other players

4. Stop the "poker teams"

[zuluking]

I won't play in a tournament with seeding. The next one I'm thinking about playing in is the Open in Tunica, Mississippi in January. If they seed it, I'll head back home with my 10g's in my pocket.

[slamdunkpro]

If it's a WPT event - it's seeded

[shaniac]

[ QUOTE ]
If it's a WPT event - it's seeded

[/ QUOTE ]

That is the most corrupt thing imagineable, and if you are making that allegation, you should back it up. A practice like that threatens the existence of the WPT.

Other than that, Paul Phillips makes a much more convincing argument for allowing deals (i.e. it IS our money and making deals are a strategic element in tournaments) than Mason et. al. makes for banning deals. There is nothing about deal-making that threatens poker's respectability but deals made underground DO just that, which is Phillips' point.

If the WPT wants to ban deals they should A) Impose a more fair and even payout structure on the casinos that sponsor the events and B) Find some sponsorship money to make the WPT more like a sport.

Then they can seed players and do all kinds of regulatory things. As of now, the whole business of the WPT is spiraling out of control into a very dark place.

shaniac