my experience with UB, empire and stars

[Hung]

I learn so much every day. And I realize how you guys must have felt when I came here and post stupid bad beats. When I lost $10 I felt awfull. I couldn't understand why someone would keep drawing for a $4!! Because $4 was a lot of money. I also understand the importance of a good bankroll. I have $3K online now. And that money used to belong to someone else. These are my winnings of the last couple of months. If I lose $100 or $200 it's like losing a few bucks. You hardly feel it. Because you know you'll win it back. This helps me preveting to go tilt. The money has no real value anymore. I try to play my A game all the time.
There's one thing that bugs me. I can't beat the game on stars. And I'm trying to figure out why. You've to find the rhythm of the site. It may sounds stupid. But the players are not playing the same way. The exact same player may be tighter on UB and looser on empire for example. Once you've found the rhythm of the site you'll start winning. I have found the rhythm at UB and empire. But I can't find it for stars. The most logic thing is to stop with stars. Because my winrate is way below average. I have made a little experiment. I'll continue with this for the rest of my life. I love statistics.

Click here for my excel file

This is not the complete file. I have the original one with all dates and hours I have played. I write down when I start and when I stop. The sheets calculates how many minutes I have played and will tell me how much I win per hour.
This is only five days. So by no means realistic. But I'll keep writing everything down. And after a year it will become clear.

Empire win/lose rate: $36,22/hour (916 minutes played)
Ultimate Bet win/lose rate: $27,28/hour (849 minutes played)
Stars win/lose rate: -$0,13/hour (702 minutes played)

Total minutes: 2467 = 41 hours played in 5 days. This means I come home from work and play till I go to bed. Yes, I am addicted [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] But I've won almost $1,000 in less then one week. I consider it as working.

I know UB players are a bit tighter then other sites, so my winrate is a little lower. It should be even lower then $27, but I won a tournament and that boosted up the numbers. Empire/party is well known for the crazy people. So my winrate is very high. No comment for stars. On the fifth day I got lucky. I had KK, $50 stack, two callers to my $5 preflop bet. Flop is 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] First guy bets $5 I raise $5, he raises $5, I raise $5 again and he just calls. Turn is K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] He moves all in. I don't hesitate and call right away. Knowing he must have the flush. But oh well. Maybe I'm lucky. River a Q. No help. He opens TT, set of tens and I take the pot. More then $100. So I got lucky and came back. But most of the time I just lose on stars.

What is my point? I'm not saying stars is a bad site. All the newbies should pick out a good site, one they like. And they should keep playing there. Go to the site where you win most of your money. I'm lucky most of the players here are limit. So the fish on the $25 NL HE tables are all mine [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
I also realize how important it is to select your table. Don't just sit down and play. Open several tables and watch it for a few minutes. It's worth your time. You'll spot some crazy guys and go take their money!

good luck to all.

I hope this will last forever. If I win $1,000/week I'll stop working!! hahahahah [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[MS Sunshine]

"I hope this will last forever. If I win $1,000/week I'll stop working!! hahahahah [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]"

You do have your moments Hung.

MS Sunshine

[Stagemusic]

I wish I could explain this. I have been reading about Party, UB, and Stars over the past months and everybody seems to agree that the better place to play for newer people that are learning is Party. Here's my story and I will gratefully accept comments from those of you with much more online experience.

I first downloaded Paradise in November of 2000...yes, I was one of the first. I never made a deposit and just played the "play" games. Last Spring (after watching the Aruba telecast of the WPT) I decided to start putting money behind my play. I downloaded UB and put in some bucks. I started playing away in the low limits and quickly lost my money so I did the natural thing. I made another deposit [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] lost that one too. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] By that time, it was time to move away from UB and find another site. I tried Planet but the tournament structure really sucked there. PokerStars was downloaded but no money put in. I did enjoy the play games there and the interface was alot of fun. I went to Party and made a deposit. The money lasted quite a bit longer there and I did not have the "fish" image that I had acquired back at UB. I did make the mistake of trying to move up without a big enough bankroll and lost my money because I didn't have the cushion. So, this last time I decided to play at PokerStars exclusively to see how I would do. As it turns out, pretty well. The SNG tournies are much much tighter than those at Party and they last about 20 minutes longer on average than those at Party. The ring games at the .50/1.00 and 1.00/2.00 levels are beatable if you throw caution to the wind and play loose and aggressive. Frankly, the biggest difference between the two is simply...the players are better. I think that there is about a 3-1 difference in the suckout percentage between Party and Stars. If you play correctly and not too tight you are much more likely to win with the better hand going in than at Party. Maybe that is what I need as a fairly new player who really reads all this stuff and believes that a KK SHOULD beat a 8-3 off suit going in.

Now comes a question. Since my skills have improved quite a bit since I was last on UB is it time to reload and go back? I do enjoy the site and the service is pretty good. I have a list of those people on the site who berated me for being new when I was there last and it would really make my day to go in and leave with their money. I know that revenge is not a good thing to go looking for in Poker and it could backfire on me. I am also thinking about reloading at Party with a bankroll sufficient to sustain the ups and downs on that site. I would appreciate your comments, tips, etc. You guys have helped my game so much over the past couple of months and I really do respect your opinions.

[MS Sunshine]

Bad beats are a good sign. For all the two-outers that you see that get there, there are a busload that miss. Don't move up without 200-300BB BR and don't stay at that limit if you are losing. There is no shame in dropping limits to where you win. Well, there is a little shame, but get over it.

If you like UB then go back and play there and see how you do, but try to separate ego from your poker play. Yes, it would feel good to show players that teased you about your play that you have improved, but that may not be the most profitable decision. Start looking at poker as a struggle to make the most profitable choice available to you. As Hung pointed out, he sweated out every $10 pot, sometimes tilting when luck went against him, now a several hundred dollar downdraft is nothing to him. He keeps $3000 on the net and stays within his BR in the limits he plays. He stress's game selection and he is willing to dump a site where he is struggling and move on to greener fields.

The education of an internet poker player, by Hung.

MS Sunshine

[Hung]

Don't forget that I play NL. I don't know if the limit games are juicy. And limit is a cukout game. If you play the small liits people will call you all the time. You'll win in the long run, that is if youplay correctly. So it's hard to win against fish that are lucky. In NL i bust them right away. If they get lucky and they take my all in. I just reload and take it back a few hands later. It's harder to win big sums if you're playing small. I can win more playing 0.1-0.2 NL then I do when playing 0.25-0.50 limit.
I've tried limit for awhile and it can be fun when you're running good. But if the bad luck comes, you'll be banging your head against your monitor. AA will crack quite often when playing a full table. If I raise 5 times the pot with AA, nobody is gonna call. Just one idiot. And that's all what I need. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

I'll make it really pleasant for lady luck. So she'll stay a little longer with me.

[Hung]

I have a list of those people on the site who berated me for being new when I was there last and it would really make my day to go in and leave with their money.

Hey, don't do this. You'll lose your money. Don't try to beat one single guy because you hate him. It will cost money, a lot of money. It doesn't matter who you beat. As long a you win. When I just started I got mad at people because they said something wrong. And I kept rasing them. I tried to steal their pots and outplay them. but that didn't work. It costed me a lot of money. Now I do it the other way arround. When I play headsup I make the guy go crazy. And he keeps raising me like crazy. Finally I take his money.
If people call you a newbie, just let them. Just keep withdrawing THEIR money.
I keep notes on *ssholes. I don't chase them. But if I take a big pot and I remember his name I'll say something back [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] they wont remember, but it does feel good [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Stagemusic]

Thanks guys. This is exactly what I was looking for and, even though it would feel good for a couple minutes, I won't go head hunting.

Hung, I took a look at the lower ($5) Heads up tables at Stars and wondered about them. Seemed just a little bit scary as I am only a 50-50 player Heads up on the SNG's where I get in that position. Can you suggest a way to improve my Heads up skills without losing my (!)? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Hung]

I'm not really a good HU player.
I play those $5 HU sit&go for fun and for FPP's.

It's hard to make someone go crazy here. Because they choose to play a sit&go heads up. So they're prepared.

The best situations are when you're on UB and you open a new table. You get double UB points and the first guy that comes up is your fish. If you play for a long time on the smae site you'll start to know the people. So the sharks wont go after the sharks. If a famiiar face comes to the table, play calmly and wait for others. But if you feel he's a fish, you should try to win all his money before the others arrive. Bluff him a few times and show your hand. It will make him mad. Don't say anything. You don't want to piss him off. You just want him to call your good hands. Playing heads up is like a battle for honor. Folding is for pussies. That's what he's going to think. So in the heat of fire he's going to call your aces. You've to feel the moment. Sometimes you can feel he's tilt. He starts raising crazy hands. Damn, this is hard to explain. His betting are not as usual anymore, this is a signal. Time to beat the hell out of him. But how do you recognize this signal? I would really like to tell you. But I have no idea how how. Maybe other players can. You just feel it. Don't let it go to your head. Keep your head cool. You're playing for your ego here. So if you lose temper you lose the game.

[David]

Play the same way you do on Stars at UB and you will kill the games at UB. I play both sites and do well on Stars and very well on UB. I know that Party/Empire has the most fish and loosest games, but they just don't seem to suit my style of play (I get very disgusted every time I play there). The games on UB are way looser than Stars, but still tighter than Party. By the way, noticed a change at Stars lately?

[Stagemusic]

Maybe it is time to go back and see how I do. I will go back later this week with a decent bankroll (easy with Neteller now) and then write it up for the forum. In answer to your question...yes, it has really loosened up at the lower limits. Fish seem to be swimming that way since they also started ads. Agree?