Make sense of this please!

#1 12-11-2005, 06:30 AM

BB has been a total fish, raising anything and everything. UTG has also been a big fisher trying to raise every hand to push people off the hands.

I'm going to give my opinion here and say this one blows me away!

PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (4 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (6 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, BB raises, UTG calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (6 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, UTG calls, Hero calls.

River: (9 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, BB calls, UTG folds.

Final Pot: 11 BB

Results in White:

Seat 3: Hero (small blind) showed [Kd 8d] and won ($10.50) with two pair, Queens and Eights
Seat 5: BB (big blind) mucked [3s 7c]
Seat 6: UTG folded on the River

Results are here for the sole purpose to see WHY this just doesn't make any sense!?
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AND HERE IS ANOTHER TO FURTHER SHOW MY POINT:

UTG from above is Button below. Again, Button is extremely loose.

PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP with 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $0.50.
1 fold, Hero raises, CO (poster) calls, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, CO folds, Button calls, SB folds, BB folds.

Turn: (6 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero raises, Button 3-bets, Hero caps, Button calls $0.50 (All-In).

River: (13.50 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: 13.50 BB

Results:

Seat 3: Hero showed [9h 9c] and won ($12.50) with a full house, Sevens full of Nines
Seat 5: Button (button) mucked [Jd Qs]


The only way I could get anything off of these guys was to slowplay them in and try to make them dig themselves a deep hole. They would bet, raise, raise, raise if I limped before them, but if I bet, they would fold or call to see the flop and then fold. I felt my solution was to slow play to lead them in as I did here:

PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, 1 fold, BB raises, UTG calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets, UTG calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.75 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets, UTG folds, Hero raises, BB calls.

River: (8.75 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB folds.

Final Pot: 9.75 BB

Results:

Seat 1: UTG folded on the Turn
Seat 3: Hero (button) collected ($8.50)
Seat 6: BB (big blind) folded on the River

spydog · #2 12-11-2005, 07:14 AM

Hand 1: 3-bet the flop. A pair + 2nd nut flush draw = mucho equity versus 2 opponents. Your river bet sucks. I would check-fold this if BB bets and UTG calls. I would probably check-fold any bet since you are splitting at best with another 8.

Hand 2: This is probably OK since Button is almost all-in. However, under normal circumstances I would just call his turn donk. If I decided to raise then I would fold to a 3-bet.

Hand 3: Preflop is absolutely horrible. Horrible. Horrible. Not raising AA preflop after a limper is a crime. Don't ever do this again. And please...don't try to justify it.

NOTE: Please DO NOT include results in your posts. Advice will be skewed based on the results and they really have no merit on how to play a hand.

ghostface · #3 12-11-2005, 08:13 AM

RAISE AA PREFLOP EVERY SINGE TIME YOU SEE IT IN LIMITED HOLD THEM

Spicymoose · #4 12-11-2005, 09:55 AM

First of all, only put one hand per thread. Even if it is the same villain, it will just make your responses better.

In hand one, you have a ,middle pair good kicker plus a flush draw. You are often ahead on the flop, and if not, you have 9 outs to the flush, plus 3 to two pair, and 2 to trips. 14 outs means you improve by the turn 28% of the time, and improve by the river 56% of the time. On top of the times that you already have the best hand, you have huge equity here. You must pump the flop as much as possible. Once you get past the flop, and you don't hit your flush, your equity drops a bit, but you can still definetly continue. I think check/calling here is fine. On the river the A hits, and you bet. This is really stupid. If they are maniacs, they will continue to bluff with anything, but won't call with anything nearly as much. Just let them do the betting with your somewhat weak hand. You can call because the pot is pretty big, but don't bet. If you get raised here you are put in a really tough decision. Don't try to bluff maniacs.

In hand 2 you check the turn to go for the check raise. Don't do this! You got lucky that he was nearly all in, and decided to just shove all his chips (many people will do this). Just make it easy for yourself and bet the turn. If he raises you, I would just call down. He may be a maniac, but he will have a king, or a 7 here often enough, and you will be crushed. If he has garbage, then your reraising does nothing other than make him fold sometimes. Given that he is all in, I like just making him put in the rest of his money, but most of the time, I would just bet the turn, get raised, and call down from there.

Hand 3 is awful preflop. I thought you weren't slowplaying anymore. Raise the flop, and don't ever think twice about it. Calling the flop and raising the turn has merits here, and I actually like it, but considering how often you have been slowplaying, I think you need to lay off of it, just because you shouldn't get in the habit of slowplaying.

Glad you have been winning though,
Spicymoose

numeri · #5 12-11-2005, 10:39 AM

Is there content here? This seems like more of a brag post to me.

[ QUOTE ]
The only way I could get anything off of these guys was to slowplay them in and try to make them dig themselves a deep hole. They would bet, raise, raise, raise if I limped before them, but if I bet, they would fold or call to see the flop and then fold.

[/ QUOTE ]
And yet, you raised preflop in both of the first two hands, you bet the flop, and still they stuck with you.

The answer is: raise your good hands preflop.