77 TT2,r flop

betgo · #1 12-08-2005, 10:44 PM

Turbo 2-table tournament. I have been most aggressive player on bubble.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t400 (5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Button (t4650)
SB (t5180)
BB (t2165)
Hero (t7930)
MP (t7075)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Hero raises to t1200, 1 fold, Button calls t1200, 2 folds.

Flop: (t2500) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets t1600, Button calls t1600.

Turn: (t5700) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero ???

ansky451 · #2 12-08-2005, 11:00 PM

Is this a joke? Look at his stack for christs sake. Put him all in, and you know that's the answer Betgo. Without even seeing the results, I can tell this is a vailed bad beat post, or really results oriented.

jcm4ccc · #3 12-08-2005, 11:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Put him all in, and you know that's the answer Betgo.

[/ QUOTE ] If he knew that was the answer, he wouldn't have posted.

I would check/call to the river. I say that because I believe you have no folding equity. There is no draw that he is working on, so the turn and river are as likely to help you as they are him.

I believe he is in a similiar situation as you. He has a marginal hand, and he is unsure if it is good. Maybe he will just check to the river and you can have a cheaper showdown. If he pushes, of course you have to call.

ansky451 · #4 12-08-2005, 11:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If he knew that was the answer, he wouldn't have posted.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not true.

[ QUOTE ]
I would check/call to the river. I say that because I believe you have no folding equity. There is no draw that he is working on, so the turn and river are as likely to help you as they are him.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are missing value out of a lot of hands. Every better hand than Betgo's probably would have pushed already. I don't know why you want to let the villain get a free showdown, or catch his 6 outs.

jcm4ccc · #5 12-08-2005, 11:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If he knew that was the answer, he wouldn't have posted.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not true.

[ QUOTE ]
I would check/call to the river. I say that because I believe you have no folding equity. There is no draw that he is working on, so the turn and river are as likely to help you as they are him.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are missing value out of a lot of hands. Every better hand than Betgo's probably would have pushed already. I don't know why you want to let the villain get a free showdown, or catch his 6 outs.

[/ QUOTE ] Why do you put him on AK or AQ? 88 or 99 seem much more likely to me. 66 if Betgo is lucky.

ansky451 · #6 12-08-2005, 11:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If he knew that was the answer, he wouldn't have posted.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not true.

[ QUOTE ]
I would check/call to the river. I say that because I believe you have no folding equity. There is no draw that he is working on, so the turn and river are as likely to help you as they are him.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are missing value out of a lot of hands. Every better hand than Betgo's probably would have pushed already. I don't know why you want to let the villain get a free showdown, or catch his 6 outs.

[/ QUOTE ] Why do you put him on AK or AQ? 88 or 99 seem much more likely to me. 66 if Betgo is lucky.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know what he has. I just think this is a ridiculous hand to post given that the villain has like 1600 left and the pot is 5400. No matter what happens it makes little difference if hes check-calling all in, or pushing him in himself. Given that its a 20 dollar tournament, I think we are missing value out of worse hands by checking to the river.

betgo · #7 12-08-2005, 11:52 PM

I think you are right. I shouldn't have posted this. I was upset I lost most of my stack and wondered if I screwed up. I think that's why people generally post this kind of hand.

I can't give villain a free card if he has over cards. If he is ahead, he will will probably push and I have to call. Of course I pushed and villain had ATs.

If I had just pushed preflop, villain would have probably called, since the push looks weaker than a raise and I was raising a lot of hands. Obviously, the push is EV+ and I couldn't have been too upset over my bad luck.

The flat call on the flop seemed kind of strange, but is explained by villain's big hand.

Actually this is not a $20 tournament. It is a $15 2-table turbo SNG that takes about 1 hour to play. There were 5 players left with 4 places paying a 4-3-2-1 ratio. I assume this sort of thing goes here rather than 1TT forum.

jcm4ccc · #8 12-08-2005, 11:59 PM

[quoteI don't know what he has. I just think this is a ridiculous hand to post. Given that its a 20 dollar tournament, I think we are missing value out of worse hands by checking to the river.

[/ QUOTE ] You say it's a ridiculous hand and that it makes no difference what you do, and then you make a very valid argument for pushing.

I have no idea if the line that I've advocated makes any sense. Hopefully, if it's a stupid line, people will comment and I will have learned something.

ansky451 · #9 12-09-2005, 12:25 AM

Your line makes no sense because worse hands check behind and see a cheap showdown, and better hands push, (which we insta call of course). It's better to make the other guy make a decision for his chips, then us let him decide if he sees a river or not. The stack sizes in this hand are what makes it so trivially easy.

jcm4ccc · #10 12-09-2005, 12:37 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Your line makes no sense because worse hands check behind and see a cheap showdown, and better hands push, (which we insta call of course).

[/ QUOTE ] You're assuming a rational player, which I believe is a mistake in this hand. If he has a better hand, why hasn't he pushed yet? If he has a worse hand, why does he keep calling when there is no draw on the board? The hands that make the most sense to me here are 88 and 99, and he is afraid that the hero is holding a ten. AK, AQ, or AJ make absolutely no sense to me here. Then again, the guy is playing strangely no matter what he has.

The 1800 extra chips in this hand are not trivial. If the guy offers me a cheap showdown, I want to take it.

EDIT: Just saw that the guy had ATs. I still like my line, since I see nobody (not even donkeys) playing this way with overcards.