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  #1  
Old 12-04-2005, 09:15 PM
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Default QQ, Lots of Action, New To Limit

I'm new to limit and am just trying it out to clear some bonuses. I had a few question about the action on this massive pot:

1.) Should I be raising this hand in MP
2.) I raised the other rounds because SB was opening. Is this correct?
3.) Why the hell would UTG (*EDIT*) call a 3-bet on that turn then fold to the J on the river?
4.) Am I overanalyzing this?

PS: I know I backed off at the end, but like I said, I'm new to limit. Plus I'm a little b*tch.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $0.50.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, CO (poster) calls, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls.

Flop: (14 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(7 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, CO folds, Button calls, SB calls, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (11 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button 3-bets</font>, SB calls, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls.

River: (23 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Button calls, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises</font>, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls, Button calls.

Final Pot: 29 BB
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  #2  
Old 12-04-2005, 09:24 PM
milesdyson milesdyson is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 197
Default Re: QQ, Lots of Action, New To Limit

prefrop is fine. flop raise is fine.

cap the turn. unless button coldcalled 74/42, you have the best hand. even if he has that (somehow), you have SB and UTG+1 trapped here for more bets. it's a must cap. river is fine.

to answer your specific questions (some have been answered above):
1. yes
2. no, it doesn't matter that he's "opening." you are betting and raising because you have the best hand. it has nothing to do with who is betting. if it were UTG+1 betting, you'd be doing the same. if someone check raised you, you'd be reraising. if they had all checked, you'd bet.
3. he didn't. he called the 3-bet and folded the river. he probably had something like 87 or a gutshot.
4. wha
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  #3  
Old 12-04-2005, 09:26 PM
Eeegah Eeegah is offline
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Raising 99 and flopping quads
Posts: 609
Default Re: QQ, Lots of Action, New To Limit

1. You should be raising in any position, 3-betting in any position, and capping in any position. You need no other buttons with JJ-AA, at least preflop.
2) No problem raising the flop. You got a set, go nuts and hope it's capped.
3) Are we reading the same hand?
4) Er, no. Limit is hard [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Anyway I'm tempted to cap the turn as I'm not prepared to give the button credit for a straight just yet. Nothing you can do on the river; he probably has the flush but you gotta call; the pot's big.
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  #4  
Old 12-04-2005, 09:33 PM
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Default Re: QQ, Lots of Action, New To Limit

As a general rule always raise with QQ from every position. Looking in PT my PFR stats for AA (95%), KK (96%), QQ (97%), JJ (89%), 1010 (67%). I'm sure AA and KK would be 100% but I must have misclicked or timed out a few times or something.

Post-flop you hit a huge hand. Keep betting-raising. I'm not too worried on the turn and I would cap it for sure as only one or two hands beat you (52 and 74), and you can't be reraised. Plus if you're betting the river you should be capping the turn.

On the river I just call the raise as the flush draw got there.
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  #5  
Old 12-04-2005, 09:37 PM
Fantam Fantam is offline
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Location: England
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Default Re: QQ, Lots of Action, New To Limit

I think you played your hand fine until the river.

Your top set looked to be the boss hand and you were correct to bet and charge your opponents for drawing.

Button 3-betting the turn suggested a possible straight, so calling for your outs to a boat made sense.

The only thing, which I would have done differently is that I would have called the river when the 3rd flush card fell.

You still had 3 opponents in the hand and there was a good chance that one of them had been calling with a flush draw.
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  #6  
Old 12-04-2005, 09:59 PM
DCWildcat DCWildcat is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 358
Default Re: QQ, Lots of Action, New To Limit

Must cap the turn. Are we really fearing the coldcalled 74 or 72 straight (credit md for pointing that out).

River call is ok, given the 3rd flush card. Otherwise, I'm putting another bet in.
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  #7  
Old 12-04-2005, 11:54 PM
zuluking zuluking is offline
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Default Re: QQ, Lots of Action, New To Limit

Jam as many chips as possible into this one.
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  #8  
Old 12-05-2005, 05:08 AM
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Default Re: QQ, Lots of Action, New To Limit

1) You should not only be raising, you should be selecting a special rock from a nearby quarry, polishing it to a sheen, and keeping it close to the computer so that you can set it on the "raise any" button at times like these.

2) Absolutely. And then you should then have capped the 3-bet on the turn. I can almost guaran-damn-tee you that button did not play 74 vs. your PFR.

3) Because when he saw the 3-flush his bowels involuntarily let loose.

4) No, it's reasonable. You faced a confusing amount of aggression, including the elusive double-donk-bet and mystery turn 3-bet, despite the fact that up to the river you beat all but the most unplayable of hands. (Even on the river, it was unlikely from SB's previous aggression that he was playing a flush draw.)

But you shouldn't let that deter you from firing with both barrels while you're about 90% certain to have the best of it.
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  #9  
Old 12-05-2005, 12:14 PM
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Default Re: QQ, Lots of Action, New To Limit

The PFR&lt;100% for your AA and KK comes from the times when it's already capped by the time it gets to you. I was searching through my own stats, wondering when on earth I hadn't raised with them, when the blindingly obvious occurred to me.
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  #10  
Old 12-05-2005, 01:00 PM
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Default Re: QQ, Lots of Action, New To Limit

[ QUOTE ]
The PFR&lt;100% for your AA and KK comes from the times when it's already capped by the time it gets to you. I was searching through my own stats, wondering when on earth I hadn't raised with them, when the blindingly obvious occurred to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe there is one other reason as well. If you have AA in the big blind and it's folded all around to you, you can't raise it.
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