Slowplay or goplay?

#1 11-25-2005, 04:43 PM

My friend keeps telling me to stop slowplaying. Here I sp the flop by just calling with a monster, going for a raise on the turn, and that is what happens. Am I throwing a bet away by not raising the flop? I felt I could slowplay as there was no flush draw, and then I could raise the turn. I also feel that if I raised the flop, the bettor would not have bet the turn, thus not allowing me to raise. What do you think?

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
Hero raises, UTG+1 calls, 4 folds, CO calls, 2 folds, BB calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, CO calls, BB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.75 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, CO folds, Hero raises, UTG+1 calls.

River: (9.75 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 calls.

Final Pot: 11.75 BB

Results in white below: 
Hero has Kc Ks (three of a kind, kings).
UTG+1 has Ad 3c (one pair, aces).
Outcome: Hero wins 11.75 BB.

milesdyson · #2 11-25-2005, 05:01 PM

without looking at your post:

if this question ever occurs ever ever, ALWAYS BET AND RAISE. DO NOT SLOWPLAY YOUR MONSTER HANDS.

Stealthy · #3 11-25-2005, 05:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
without looking at your post:

if this question ever occurs ever ever, ALWAYS BET AND RAISE. DO NOT SLOWPLAY YOUR MONSTER HANDS.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not always the case. There are some valuable slowplaying situations to be had. This however was not one of them.

milesdyson · #4 11-25-2005, 05:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
without looking at your post:

if this question ever occurs ever ever, ALWAYS BET AND RAISE. DO NOT SLOWPLAY YOUR MONSTER HANDS.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not always the case.

[/ QUOTE ]
no, you are wrong. this is exactly the case. i quote, "if this question ever occurs," do not slowplay. if this question ever occurs to anyone, you do not know what to do. so you should bet and raise, because by default this will be the correct decision a huge % of the time.

if in doubt about playing fast/slow, please err on the side of caution and play hands fast.

#5 11-25-2005, 05:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
My friend keeps telling me to stop slowplaying. Here I sp the flop by just calling with a monster, going for a raise on the turn, and that is what happens. Am I throwing a bet away by not raising the flop? I felt I could slowplay as there was no flush draw, and then I could raise the turn. I also feel that if I raised the flop, the bettor would not have bet the turn, thus not allowing me to raise. What do you think?

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
Hero raises, UTG+1 calls, 4 folds, CO calls, 2 folds, BB calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, CO calls, BB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.75 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, CO folds, Hero raises, UTG+1 calls.

River: (9.75 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 calls.

Final Pot: 11.75 BB

Results in white below: 
Hero has Kc Ks (three of a kind, kings).
UTG+1 has Ad 3c (one pair, aces).
Outcome: Hero wins 11.75 BB. 

[/ QUOTE ]
I think this is fine. You lose some value to 22 but thats about it. There are no draws here and there is no multiway action.

milesdyson · #6 11-25-2005, 05:22 PM

wow, that's bad.

look - it isn't only about "are there draws out?" that's part of it, but the other part is the fact that these players are NOT aggressive. they see you raise before the flop, they coldcall with say, a low pocket pair. do you really think they are going to bet it for you? on an AKx board? sure as hell they won't, but they will often call down with it. is K4/Ax going to bet? maybe, but there are also many players will just check through with it.

will QJ/QT/JT bet? nope. will they call a bet? yep. will they bet when they turn their gutshot? yep. will you look like a idiot when they 3-bet? yep.

PLEASE, LET THEM CALL. IT'S WHAT THEY LIKE TO DO, AND THEY'RE GOOD AT IT.

#7 11-25-2005, 05:23 PM

I hate it. You were the pf raiser so they would expect you to bet the flop with lot's of stuff. That said, the way you played it I think you absolutly must 3 bet when it comes back to you. You probably make more money this way, and you make CO pay too much for his gutter if that's what he has.

#8 11-25-2005, 05:25 PM

Oops Im so bad at reading the action. I thought we had position on the flop bettor. You cant slow play then.

nomadtla · #9 11-25-2005, 05:25 PM

Raising this PF and then checking the flop screams low pair or I sloplayed the bomb hand. Calling the flop gives a good idea it was the latter. The checkraise on the turn screams "hey guys guess what I have!!" If UTG+1 was paying any attention (granted rarely happens at this level) you don't get a call on that river. If you lead the flop you're likely to get raised by a dumb ace anyway since they expect you to bet this flop allways. You may have gotten one extra SB by your play but in the long run this is asking for trouble. People at these limits will call with a lot of weak crap (BET FOR VALUE).

Stealthy · #10 11-25-2005, 06:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
without looking at your post:

if this question ever occurs ever ever, ALWAYS BET AND RAISE. DO NOT SLOWPLAY YOUR MONSTER HANDS.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not always the case.

[/ QUOTE ]
no, you are wrong. this is exactly the case. i quote, "if this question ever occurs," do not slowplay. if this question ever occurs to anyone, you do not know what to do. so you should bet and raise, because by default this will be the correct decision a huge % of the time.

if in doubt about playing fast/slow, please err on the side of caution and play hands fast.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah my apologies! I misunderstood what you were saying. Now I follow you perfectly and concur that you are indeed correct! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

If you have to ask then the answer is "no" is the point you were making, and that I missed.