Maximizing value on the turn

Sean D · #1 11-21-2005, 02:28 PM

I think the flop is an obvious raise because of all the draw possibilities out, but the turn is where I had a question. Obviously I hit the gin card, but do I raise here and risk losing SB and UTG who are probably still drawing? I thought they might still chase with a Q in their hand, so I decided to raise. But in hindsight it may have been better to go for overcalls. Thoughts?

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, CO calls, Hero raises, SB calls, 1 fold, UTG calls, CO calls.

Flop: (9 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, CO bets, Hero raises, SB calls, UTG calls, CO calls.

Turn: (8.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, CO bets, Hero raises, SB folds, UTG folds, CO calls.

River: (12.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
CO bets, Hero raises, CO 3-bets, Hero caps, CO calls.

Final Pot: 20.50 BB

sean c · #2 11-21-2005, 02:31 PM

I am raising the turn with a straight and flush draw on the board.

Also you never know when someone is slow playing a made straight on the flop and will 3-bet you.

MrWookie47 · #3 11-21-2005, 02:31 PM

You have no guarantee that they're overcalling that turn, but you'll likely get one more out of the bettor. This hand is fine. I would admonish you about worrying about maximizing your value for quads (they're rare, so it's largely unimportant), but the mere fact that you played them fast brings a warm fuzzy feeling to my heart.

#4 11-21-2005, 02:34 PM

He has virtually the nuts on the turn, only 3 cards can possibly beat him on the river. Why not go for overcalls on the turn? If they are calling that flop, another jack isn't folding everyone else for 1 bet IMO.

Steve

SL__72 · #5 11-21-2005, 02:35 PM

You got way more value out of this then the guy who check/called his top set/quads vs. me on the flop and turn yesterday.

soko · #6 11-21-2005, 02:36 PM

I would like the idea of calling the turn if the pot were smaller, doing so gives anyone holding an ace or a queen a reason to call, but here a flush draw will call even if you raise, the pot is big enough to value bet you made the right move.

Buckmulligan · #7 11-21-2005, 02:38 PM

raise turn. yes.

#8 11-21-2005, 02:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
but here a flush draw will call even if you raise

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't that assuming these players have a concept of pot odds? I think a lot of drawing fish here are just thinking, "man I'd call it for just 1, 2 is too much though" and fold to the raise.

Koss · #9 11-21-2005, 02:41 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
but here a flush draw will call even if you raise

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't that assuming these players have a concept of pot odds? I think a lot of drawing fish here are just thinking, "man I'd call it for just 1, 2 is too much though" and fold to the raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Most people tend to go the otherway. "I have a flush draw on a paired board. Call 1/2/3/4 bets, it doesn't matter."

#10 11-21-2005, 02:44 PM

Good point, hard to imagine what they could have in this hand though if they all fold the turn! (other than complete crap like most players at party .50/1.00 6max)