Learning Stud Game Mechanics on Fun PS Tables

[MikeRand2000]

Hey all-

I've decided to branch into Stud (coming out of Micro Limit Hold'em) because I'm interested in learning multiple poker games.

Quick question: does it make sense for me to sit at the fun tables in Poker Stars to learn a) basic game mechanics b) how to train myself to remember upcards and c) basic third street decision making?

I sat down at the $0.04/$0.08 and just blew through my bankroll. I couldn't keep track of the upcards and I couldn't get third street decisions right. I'm not the kind of person who can just pick up 7CSFAP and memorize the first 5 chapters, then apply them perfectly (congrats to those of you who are). It doesn't seem to make sense to me to spend money learning that stuff when those decisions are almost entirely my cards and upcards (for which fun money tables are adequate).

Let me know what you think.

Thanks,

Mike

[blumpkin22]

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I sat down at the $0.04/$0.08 and just blew through my bankroll.

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I'm sorry but this is just hilarious.

[Michael Emery]

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I sat down at the $0.04/$0.08 and just blew through my bankroll.

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Twenty-dollars must be tough to part with. I really wish I was playing .40-.80 last night online when I was getting my ass kicked. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

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Let me know what you think.


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I think you should just suck it up and memorize 7csfap's and read posts on this forum for insight.

Mike Emery

I just realized I read it wrong due to sleep deprivation. You were playing .04-.08. Man, $3 must be tough to lose.

I think playing on the play money tables will help with the memorization skills, BUT would also help you develop bad habits when you move onto the money. To improve memorizing the door cards, break them up into groups of 2-3, so that you can remember them easier.

Its much easier to remember 248 7TK than to remember 2 4 8 7 ten king. Repeat them to yourself 3 times in your head and you should have an easier time with it. IMO, the most important time to use those cards is on 3rd street, you really don't want to play a hand with dead outs. If you got a couple of one suit, also note how many of that suit is gone, and keep a running count. It would be a big mistake to get to 5th st and have 4 to a flush but have 7 of your suit already out, you'd be nearly drawing dead.

I just got my books from amazon (7csfap and pot limit and no limit poker by stewart reuben and bob ciaffone) and will be going thru them soon. If you can't get the stuff to stick the first time thru, there is no law that you can't read thru the book 2, 3, or even 5 times. I'm sure like most 2+2 books, the more you read it, the more it will help your game.

[Aaron W.]

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I sat down at the $0.04/$0.08 and just blew through my bankroll.

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How big was your bankroll?

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Let me know what you think.

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I'm just starting out on stud8 and making a very similar transition.

If you're really confused with the mechanics of the game, go ahead and do play money for a while. But it won't really help you much in terms of playing the game (the actual decision process). Do you really want to sit there and fold a bunch for hours for nothing, when everyone else is playing everything? I suppose there might be something worth watching, but all of their play is likely to be awful and you'll not learn the things you should.

If you're having trouble with 3rd street decisions, make yourself a cheat-sheet. Make a list of the types of hands given in the book ("wired", big pairs, med/small pairs, 3-flushes, and 3-straights) and next to each one, make a list of the conditions that need to be met in order for your hand to be played and how you should play them.

I can't memorize all the cards that are out, yet. I'm just happy to know the important ones (my flush cards are gone, some pair cards are gone, but the straight cards are live) and use more of my mental energy on making decisions.

Just as with hold'em, you've got to spend the time doing your homework if you want to improve. Remember QTip's To the New, Aspiring Player from about a month ago? I don't think that those were good general principles for any poker game. From his post:

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When you’re just starting, it doesn’t make sense for most players to be playing a ton of hands. If you’re not studying at least twice as much as you’re playing, you’re doing yourself a HUGE disservice. Read and reread the books everyone here talks about, post hands, discuss hands, do math, think about hands away from the table, etc. There are plenty of things that go on in a 100 hands or so, that will give you something to think about, post and learn from.

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In the first 120 hands I think I asked questions about 20 of them, and I've got another list all lined up to scatter throughout the coming week from my most recent 70 hand session. Should I limp this? Should I jam that? Did I miss a value bet?

The twodimes simulator is good for developing some intuition on the approximate relative hand values (especially good for comparing starting hands). As in hold'em, it doesn't accurately reflect how they play out, but it's a good first approximation.

In Poker Essays Vol 1, there are a couple good essays to read:

Differences Between Stud and Hold'em
Common Seven-Card Stud Errors

They weren't quite as helpful to me (stud8 is a quite different), but it got the mind moving in the right direction by showing me some of the new angles on the game.

[MikeRand2000]

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I sat down at the $0.04/$0.08 and just blew through my bankroll.

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How big was your bankroll?

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Heh, I should have clarified. It is pretty funny. Not really bankroll I guess, just the 30BB amount I sat down with (which was, yes everyone, $2.40). Immaterial, but a waste of money nonetheless.

Good points about the cheat sheets, etc. I'm also trying to internalize those two memory posts that are in the FAQ.

Ease up on the "Memorize 7CSFAP!", will ya? For crying out loud, not everyone is a genius. Some people actually have to take it slowly to get it.

[Roland]

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Ease up on the "Memorize 7CSFAP!", will ya?

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You shouldn’t memorize it; you should try to understand it. Big difference, imo.

[greenage]

I don’t see any problem with starting at the play money tables and would be surprised if the level of play were much different from $0.04/$0.08.

Hey, money is money. I played the free (Holdem) tables for months before I switched to real money and that was the result of winning a high hand jackpot on UB for like $11.

I think you should start out where you feel most comfortable.

[TheSalche]

in terms of memorizing the upcards, start by looking for your dead cards ... eg. you have (4Q)4 with two diamonds, memorize how many 4's queens and diamonds are dead (even if you dont play the hand ... which you probably shouldnt), then eventually work your way up to memorizing all the upcards

[greenage]

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in terms of memorizing the upcards, start by looking for your dead cards ... eg. you have (4Q)4 with two diamonds, memorize how many 4's queens and diamonds are dead (even if you dont play the hand ... which you probably shouldnt), then eventually work your way up to memorizing all the upcards

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Good point and since he’ll be starting at play money or nano-limits, most of the cards will still be out ‘cause no one ever folds. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]