Live game chip tricks, a LOSING strategy at the casino!?

Chip tricks, i love 'em ( http://pokerchiptricks.com ) When im new to a home game, it helps establish my Rep. quickly and aids in my running over S.H. games. it also tells the one other dood with any skills to "stay away from me" as we eat up the fish all night.

Here's my beef. I ran into an horridly good table for 1/2 a foxwoods a few weeks back. The usual 1-2 people per table with skills were ALL at my table this time. As usual, i did my wide variety of chip tricks on auto-pilot including the imfamous and diffcult "twirl", which im proud to say is now smooth as butter.

Most of the table was shuffling, which at 1/2$ makes me catorgorize them automaticly at at least "home game hero" status. Most donk's can't shuffle and don't want to even bother to learn. But i realized that anyone who's Twirl is smooth, is a serious player, and other serious players reconize this. This lead to me becoming victim of a sophisticated play if my first Pot. The river brought a 4 to the st8 q high, giving me 2 pair but having the iniscal raiser "just" doubling his bet from the pervious street. I dropped the hand and he fliped over 7-4s. low pair.

The guy next to me said "WOW! that guy usually plays tight too!" I just so happened this was a changing gears hand for him, and i believe that since he figured i was a good player to do my chip tricks, it let him pull off a good bluff without ever seeming me put a chip into the pot perviously.

Am i missing something? should i go to the casino next time and act and talk like a donk? or am i miss reading the situation or looking to far into it? Is there any other benifits of proforming diffucult C.T.'s at the casino im over looking? Oh, btw, this person was a good player and had about 600 or 700$ in front of him. Thx for your time

[beavens]

i would have to say that better plays work more against better players.

unless you want to project the image of someone who is somewhat compentent at poker, i'd leave the chiptricks at home.

I'm skeptical to think that in his head he was thinking..."this guy is a good player, he can twirl his chips. Therefore, I am going to put a sophisticated move on him"

I think you're putting too much emphasis on the image of chip tricks. For one thing, just about every person I know can shuffle. Second thing, with online poker being so big, there are alot of players who can play but aren't used to handling chips.

When I sit down, I'll do chip tricks too...half becaue they're fun, half beause it'll intimidate the fish. But for the good people, I don't believe it really does anything. When I see someone doing elaborate tricks at my table, I don't immediately think he's a good player.

-_-

[the machine]

I dont know how much you play at foxwoods but that has been my game of choice 1-2 NL. Been there for about 2 years now. First thing you need to realize is that this is probably the most agressive poker rooms on the east coast. Things like chip tricks dont usually scare many people, they may acknoledge the fact that you can do them and have probably spent some time at a table but it by no means makes someone a good player or someone to fear. Ive seen plenty of donkeys in that game who shuffle and many top 1-2 players in that room who dont touch a chip unless they are betting or usually raking in a pot. The agression in that room is more what you need to be focused on. Instill fear in your opponents by your bets, and deception. Your chip tricks will leave you little room to save face in hands. That usually works on completely unskilled players and they figure this guy must be a pro he can shuffle chips wow!!!!!, and these are the people you dont want to be scared of you because they will pay your bills. Have fun with chip tricks as i do but dont try to use them as a fear factor

[FreakDaddy]

My momma always said if you have nothing good to say, then sut the f* up you little sh*t. Ok, my momma didn't quite use those words... but chip tricks... intimidating... come on kid, you've been watching too many poker drama shows.

[4_2_it]

I tend to spend time improving my game and not learning fancy tricks. To each his own. I look forward to being entertained by you at the tables.

[Percula]

Image is key in live play, especially the higher you go in limits.

Whatever you do, you must be aware of your image and how it is going to effect other players.

I doubt there is a winning live NL player out there that is not keenly aware of image and how it effect the game.

IHMO, having a strong image is +EV. But you must play in contrast to this image or it's not going to gain you much.

[ QUOTE ]
I'm skeptical to think that in his head he was thinking..."this guy is a good player, he can twirl his chips. Therefore, I am going to put a sophisticated move on him"

I think you're putting too much emphasis on the image of chip tricks. For one thing, just about every person I know can shuffle. Second thing, with online poker being so big, there are alot of players who can play but aren't used to handling chips.

When I sit down, I'll do chip tricks too...half becaue they're fun, half beause it'll intimidate the fish. But for the good people, I don't believe it really does anything. When I see someone doing elaborate tricks at my table, I don't immediately think he's a good player.

-_-

[/ QUOTE ]

True, but donk's with NEVER twirl, and thats info, thx for the post

[ QUOTE ]
I dont know how much you play at foxwoods but that has been my game of choice 1-2 NL. Been there for about 2 years now. First thing you need to realize is that this is probably the most agressive poker rooms on the east coast. Things like chip tricks dont usually scare many people, they may acknoledge the fact that you can do them and have probably spent some time at a table but it by no means makes someone a good player or someone to fear. Ive seen plenty of donkeys in that game who shuffle and many top 1-2 players in that room who dont touch a chip unless they are betting or usually raking in a pot. The agression in that room is more what you need to be focused on. Instill fear in your opponents by your bets, and deception. Your chip tricks will leave you little room to save face in hands. That usually works on completely unskilled players and they figure this guy must be a pro he can shuffle chips wow!!!!!, and these are the people you dont want to be scared of you because they will pay your bills. Have fun with chip tricks as i do but dont try to use them as a fear factor

[/ QUOTE ]

Good stuff, im leaving the tricks at home from now on, thx for the post

[elus2]

i've played in many home games. i would venture to say that for the majority of poker players, the amount of chip tricks you know is inversely correlated to your poker skill level.